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Israel, Gaza and the propaganda war

Venezuala is just about democratic. However few democratic nations tell their Jewish population to publicly refute Israel like Chavez. Not exactly the act of a democratic leader is it?

Chavez is not threatening to bomb indiscriminately the Jewish civilian population if they refuse to 'refute Israel' and assassinate their elected leaders is he?

So, Venezuela with a President who is elected every six-years by the people, and with a National Assembly with 165 members elected for five-year terms is now, according to your low standards: 'just about democractic'. What a pillock of the community you really are.
 
:rolleyes:

Have a good look Agricola and tell me about equivalence, about levels of condemnation.

Then remember what it is actually about, it is about condemning people who murder innocents.

There are those here that won't do that, because of their incredible bias, but you keep pretending it ain't so and that i am the one being non-sensical.

A pair of fine examples of selective quotation you've posted there.
 
MAP said:
The Guardian - Ambulances were able to drive to some of the most heavily shelled areas in Gaza for the first time to collect the dead and injured yesterday, as Israel paused its military offensive for three hours to allow in aid, amid growing international pressure to call a ceasefire and ease the humanitarian crisis.

A team of medics and volunteers from the Palestinian Red Crescent took advantage of the lull in fighting to drive to Zeitoun, the scene of an Israeli attack on a house on Monday that was known to have killed nine members of the Samouni family. It was the first time medics had been able to reach the scene.

Muhammad Shaheen, a volunteer with the Red Crescent, said the team found a scene of devastation. They discovered another 10 corpses inside the house and "dozens" more dead lying in the rubble in the area around.

"It was an unbelievable sight," he said. "There was a huge number of dead bodies, houses were completely destroyed and many others partially destroyed." The team found around 10 injured people in the house and another 15 who were unhurt, but still sheltering from the fighting.

As aid trucks drove in, many Palestinians left their homes to shop and stock up on food while they could. "Food and milk - what else can we hope for in three hours," said Ahmed Abu Kamel, a father of six who lives near Gaza City. "We want it all to end."

Several Israeli tanks were close by, next to the remains of the Israeli settlement at Netzarim, which has become a key Israeli military position during this conflict. The troops told the medical teams to park their vehicles and walk to the house to collect the dead and injured. All were brought back to Gaza City.

"We tried to help as much as we could, but it was hard to get access to the whole area. The roads were destroyed, there was rubble everywhere," said Shaheen.

Some Israeli officials suggested that similar pauses in the fighting would be held every afternoon during the conflict. Peter Lerner, an Israeli military spokesman who works on the crossings, said lulls would be considered. Even during the pause in operations, Israeli soldiers might still fight, he said. "For every attack against the army, there will be a response," he said.

But aid workers said three hours was not enough to allow sufficient relief into Gaza after months of an Israeli economic blockade. John Ging, director of operations for the UN Relief and Works Agency in Gaza, said it was a "hell on earth ... Let's stop the fighting, not just for three hours, but for 24 hours a day," he said. "There's nowhere safe in Gaza. Everyone here is terrorised and traumatised."

There were occasional explosions heard across Gaza during the three-hour lull, and just minutes after it had expired the fighting returned. Israeli military helicopters were seen in the sky and there were several heavy explosions that sent up thick clouds of black smoke. Two rockets fired from Gaza streaked through the sky and landed in the southern Israeli town of Be'er Sheva. More rockets followed yesterday evening.

The death toll continued to mount. Last night, an Israeli air strike on a car killed a man and his three children in northern Gaza, Palestinian medical officials said.

At least 28 Palestinians were killed yesterday in attacks across the Gaza Strip, according to Palestinian medical officials. The overall Palestinian death toll was at more than 660, with nearly 3,000 injured. Journalists are still banned from entering Gaza to report on the killings. On the Israeli side, seven soldiers and three civilians have been killed in the past 12 days.

In a separate incident, the aid agency Care International said one of its staff on a food distribution project was killed on Tuesday night when his home was hit by an Israeli air strike. Muhammad Samouni died in the attack and his son was critically injured, the agency said.

Although lorries carrying medical supplies and food were allowed into Gaza yesterday, along with deliveries of industrial diesel, concern about the crisis is still growing. The World Bank warned there was a threat of a severe public health crisis because of a shortage of drinking water and the failure of the sewage system. Nearly all sewage and water pumps were out of operation because of a lack of electricity and limited fuel, it said.

Even when fuel was delivered, it was too dangerous to take it to the pumps where it was most needed, the bank said. It said that as well as fuel, a regular electricity supply was needed and maintenance work was urgently required on a large sewage lake in Beit Lahiya that was in danger of bursting.

"As of today, nearly the entire population of Gaza is without running water and is dependent on their own stored water supplies and limited sales by private water distributors," the bank said.

Sewage had already flooded in some areas, it said, and warned that as many as 10,000 Palestinians were at risk of drowning if the Beit Lahiya sewage lake burst.

www.map-uk.org

Fucking, fucking, fucking scum.

These fucking cunts need to be locked in the Hague and have the key thrown away.
 
Red Cross Condemns Israel for Blocking Access to Bombing Site

Firing on relief convoys, shooting medics and barring aid workers.

The International Committee of the Red Cross, meanwhile, has issued a rare condemnation of the Israeli government for blocking it from the site of a deadly bombing of Palestinian civilians. The Red Cross says Israel barred aid workers for four days from reaching victims in the neighborhood of Zeitoun. Israeli soldiers reportedly tried to chase the rescue workers away. When they finally arrived, the workers found fifteen bodies, along with several children still barely alive. The children were lying next to their dead mothers. In a statement, the Red Cross said the Israeli military has “failed to meet its obligation under international humanitarian law to care for and evacuate the wounded,” calling the episode “unacceptable.” Other sources have reported a higher death toll in the Zeitoun attack. The Daily Telegraph of London reports the bombing could have killed between sixty to seventy members of the same family.

Source.
 
Re-found after reading the arch-propagandaist Dershowitz's CiF article

Claim: US plotted to overthrow Hamas after election victory
Status: True

The central man figure in Washington's plan was Mohammed Dahlan, who had been Yasser Arafat's security chief in Gaza and who had established close ties with the CIA as early as the 1990s. The magazine cites three unidentified US officials quoting Bush as saying: "He's our guy."

According to the magazine, Rice played a main role in trying to persuade Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates to offer training and funding to the Fatah fighters. Israeli officials admitted in December 2006 that Egypt had sent weapons to the Fatah faction in Gaza.

The US effort did not end with the establishment of a Palestinian national unity government. Vanity Fair describes the administration's plan B, which called for adding 4,700 new Fatah troops with additional training in Jordan and Egypt.

A state department memo put the cost for salaries, training and weapons at $1.27bn (£640m) over five years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/04/usa.israelandthepalestinians
 
Jesus H Christ. I just watched a Channel 4 report on the Red Cross being denied access to starving civilians for three days, then being denied their ambulances when they finally found the dead body of a mother and her starving, crying children. And then I watched the Israeli spokesperson attempt to justify it.

Must....restrain....fists...of....fury.....

Matt
 
Mark Ragev (the Israeli PMs spokesman) has just been getting a roasting on CH4 news over this

The Israeli Army Spokesman Cpt Benjamin Rutland (you've probably heard his voice if you listen to the BBC, he's got a bit of an Aussie accent it sounds like) was getting a roasting on R4 just now about it as well.

Now that there are pretty unimpeachable UN sources saying, er, the same thing that people who live there have been saying all this time, I think there's been a bit of a media turning point.
 
Jesus H Christ. I just watched a Channel 4 report on the Red Cross being denied access to starving civilians for three days, then being denied their ambulances when they finally found the dead body of a mother and her starving, crying children. And then I watched the Israeli spokesperson attempt to justify it.

Must....restrain....fists...of....fury.....

Matt

This is quite possibly the turning-point in the propaganda war.

The Red Cross is such a... "cautious" organisation, it makes a vicarage tea party look like Clockwork Orange. Arguably there's a place for an organisation like this, with its role in helping prisoners of war and so on.

So this:

The International Committee of the Red Cross has also accused Israel of failing to fulfil its duty to help wounded civilians in Gaza.

The ICRC said its staff had found four weak and scared children beside their mothers' bodies in houses hit by shelling in Zeitoun.

BBC

translates into human language as: "Look, cunts, war criminals, not fit to breathe the same air as a human: we are going to make sure you fry. Slowly."
 
The Red Cross is such a... "cautious" organisation, it makes a vicarage tea party look like Clockwork Orange. Arguably there's a place for an organisation like this, with its role in helping prisoners of war and so on.

I mean, even the Germans allowed the Red Cross into their camps during WW2. So, in this case, the Israeli army are showing themselves more inhumane than the Wehrmacht. Pretty impressive.
 
I mean, even the Germans allowed the Red Cross into their camps during WW2. So, in this case, the Israeli army are showing themselves more inhumane than the Wehrmacht. Pretty impressive.

That's it.

My current feeling is this: anyone who holds an Israeli passport - and hasn't burned it yet - is complicit in war crimes.

It's easy. Renounce your citizenship.
 
How much of this is being reported on Israeli TV? Are they just getting the official IDF version?
 
This is quite possibly the turning-point in the propaganda war.

The Red Cross is such a... "cautious" organisation, it makes a vicarage tea party look like Clockwork Orange. Arguably there's a place for an organisation like this, with its role in helping prisoners of war and so on.


Also:

UN suspends Gazan aid operation

"... because its staff have been hit by Israeli attacks."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7818577.stm
 
That's it.

My current feeling is this: anyone who holds an Israeli passport - and hasn't burned it yet - is complicit in war crimes.

It's easy. Renounce your citizenship.

Yes! And go back to where you came from! After all, nothing bad happened to you there did it? Oh hang on...
 
That's it.

My current feeling is this: anyone who holds an Israeli passport - and hasn't burned it yet - is complicit in war crimes.

It's easy. Renounce your citizenship.

Shouldn't all British and American citizens burn their passports, too. And the Russians, Chinese, ...?
 
I mean, even the Germans allowed the Red Cross into their camps during WW2. So, in this case, the Israeli army are showing themselves more inhumane than the Wehrmacht. Pretty impressive.
* I seem to recall the red cross and israel have several issuses .Red cross accepted the red crescent as equivelent to the red cross but wouldn't accept a* Israeli/jewish* design .Row got quite heated with both sides accusing each other of various crimes .
 
Forbes respond to the attacks on the UN with a hit piece attacking the UN for being biased, and for supporting Hamas, and for opposing the war on terror:

http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2009/01/07/gaza-hamas-unrwa-oped-cx_cr_0108rosett.html

However the article isnt an entire bust, it does manage to contain (right at the end) one of the most spectacularly wrong reader comments of 2009 thus far:

$400 million/year for 4.6 million "refugees." That's $86 million per refugee PER year! I'd say the Palestinians have a beef, but it's not Israel that's shafting them, it's the UN.

:confused::(:D
 
That forbes article is comedy gold ... sadly this conflict is no laughing matter.
 
Well Labour's Lorna Fitzsimmons has raised the level of sophisticated debate by stating on BBC news that 'war is war and brutal things happen'. :rolleyes:
 
Deborah Orr: There wouldn't have been Gaza rockets without the blockade
Supporters of Israel's action are fond of reiterating Israel's narrow justification for its action. Who else would put up with regular rocket attacks from a neighbour, it asks? No one suggests that they would be happy to. It is accepted that Israel has the right to defend itself, and so it should be. Yet few would acquiesce without protest to a swingeing two-year blockade by a neighbour either, though no Western leader ever seems seriously to ask that highly pertinent question.

On the contrary, Blair implies that in order to obtain a ceasefire, Gaza's Hamas leadership must prove itself willing to comply proactively with the blockade against it, as well as refraining from actually firing weapons. Yet Hamas does not only import arms through Egypt's tunnels. It also imports everything from livestock to medical supplies – about 90 per cent of all goods entering the area.

Politically Hamas is popular not only because of its refusal to abandon armed struggle and accept the state of Israel, but also because it organises social support more efficiently than other groups. Even during the siege it has found some ways to mitigate the effects of Israeli policy on Gazans. The blockade is viewed by many as "collective punishment", because it exists to discomfort ordinary citizens and thereby undermine the ability of Hamas to govern. The idea of the blockade was to turn Palestinians away from the group that it had democratically elected. Yet Blair's peace plan considers that the blockade should be extended, with the ability of the Israelis to control the flow of goods into Gaza further strengthened. So the long-standing humanitarian crisis that is the result of the blockade would actually be augmented in order that the more extreme and immediate horror of warfare could be curtailed.

Increasingly, the international community concerns itself mainly with crisis management in Israel-Palestine, and this plan of Blair's is a perfect example. Being seen as one of the brokers of a ceasefire is a fine thing. But a willingness to accept and refine a system that keeps 1.5 million people effectively imprisoned in order to achieve one, is not a strategy exactly guaranteed to foster long-term stability, or even hope. The Israeli fight is against Hamas in general, not just Hamas rockets, and the attack and the blockade are intimately linked.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...aza-rockets-without-the-blockade-1229944.html
 
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