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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

platinumsage said:
Both you and the BBC said that according to Zelenskiy, Turkey has agreed to stop Russian warships passing through the Bosphorus.

This is wrong, he has said no such thing.
Click to expand...

I posted what al jazeera had reported, which was repeated by several other major media outlets, because his tweet seemed clear to them. It has since been corrected, WTF is your problem?
 
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cupid_stunt said:
I posted what al jazeera had reported, which was repeated by several other major media outlets, because his tweet seemed clear to them. It has since been corrected, WTF is your problem?
Click to expand...
TBF, I can see how Zelenskiy's tweet could be interpreted as saying they had agreed, as it appears to being saying thanks for that decision.

As others have said, it would be a significant escalation and I can't see Turkey agreeing without serious thought, and possibly consulting NATO allies.

Is it just me, or are some of Zelenskiy's reported comments possibly a bit reckless?
 
andysays said:
TBF, I can see how Zelenskiy's tweet could be interpreted as saying they had agreed, as it appears to being saying thanks for that decision.

As others have said, it would be a significant escalation and I can't see Turkey agreeing without serious thought, and possibly consulting NATO allies.

Is it just me, or are some of Zelenskiy's reported comments possibly a bit reckless?
Click to expand...
the time for being reckful is over
 
platinumsage said:
That tweet doesn't say what the BBC claim. He thanks Erdogan and says a ban is important. Nothing about Erdogan agreeing to implement a ban :confused:

BBC News is seriously going down the pan. Reuters even corrected a rumor from Turkish official about this well before the BBC displayed that on their ticker:

www.reuters.com

Turkey hasn't decided to close straits to Russian ships -Turkish official

Turkey has not made a decision to close the Dardanelles and Bosphorus straits to Russian ships, a Turkish official with knowledge of the matter told Reuters on Saturday.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
Click to expand...
It doesn't say "a ban" it says "the ban". Hugely different no?
 
Pickman's model said:
h loads of ministries have their own troops, it's really weird.

but if i was to send in a load of people to track down the people on my kill list i think i'd prefer to send in a company of us marines rather than a load of chechens, on the basis that the american marines would stand out a lot less in kiev than the chechens with their billowy facial hair.
Click to expand...

Putin wants to scare folk - the Chechen groups aren't about fighting, they are for 'law and order'...
 


A special request for the residents of Ukrainian villages and small towns, as well as everyone who will have a relevant reason.
If a column of Russian armored technology passed you, after a while there will be a fuel column. Hold her down or burn her down. Russian tanks will just stop, our troops will seize them and use them against the enemy.
 
One thing that struck me is how little the russian people were prepped for this. They were told - repeatedly - that Russia has no plans to invade and it was all western shit stirring. Then we had about 4 days of transparently false claims about Ukraine attacking the rebel areas and now its a full on invasion. With Chenchya it was all about fighting murderous, fanatical Jihadis - but beyond lurid claims about the government being nazis, they havent - and may be coundn't - done much to portray the Ukrainians as a major threat to Russia. Doesn't look like a well though out propaganda strategy to me. Prior to the Iraq war we had months and months of scaremongering and atrocity stories and bullshit to justify it.
Im curious as to what the Russian people make of all this - especially if/when Kiev gets flattened by their Military (and many russians have friends and relatives living there) and more and more of thier sons and brothers come home in bodybags.

Russia is not a totalitarian state likes in Stalin's time. Protestors get arrested and beaten up - but they arent being massacred or sent to the gulags (yet?). Putin does not have total control of the media - especially socail medai - and the state does not run everything. Im no expert - but im not sure how much of Putins power is conditional on the the support of oligarchs, the military and other senior officials - if this goes proper shit show for (and there are hints that it might) maybe things could go very wrong for vlad very quickly.

Other thought is that I assumed that Russia would "shock and awe" ukraine - take out all their communications, air defence, air force and precision target key individuals (do they use drones much?) and then sweep in - instead they have gone in without securing air superiority - which looks reckless in the extreme. If (and still a big if - lots of propaganda flying around) they have seriously underestimated the Ukraine's defensive capability's - has this been in part to them being fed by misinformation from the western side - and this could turn into a massive beartrap that Putin has blundered into.
Their military has experience of fighting counter-insurgency wars in Afghanistan, Chechnya and Syria. The only proper army it has faced - i think - was the tiny Georgian military - in a conflict that lasted - what - 48 hours? They are now going toe to toe with a well equipped, large and highly motivated military across a vast area who will have been planning how to resist a Russian invasion since at least 2014.
Could it be they have gone in woefully unprepared, ill equipped and without proper planning? And/or have the russian military deliberately done this in a half arsed way becasue they were against it from the start?
Anyway - kind of freewheeling here - and trying not the get too hopeful - but still ...
 
Lithuanian accent easily mistaken for scottish😂.

As for the Chechens much like the ulster en got wiped out on the somme they won't actually be missed
 
Kaka Tim said:
One thing that struck me is how little the russian people were prepped for this. They were told - repeatedly - that Russia has no plans to invade and it was all western shit stirring. Then we had about 4 days of transparently false claims about Ukraine attacking the rebel areas and now its a full on invasion. With Chenchya it was all about fighting murderous, fanatical Jihadis - but beyond lurid claims about the government being nazis, they havent - and may be coundn't - done much to portray the Ukrainians as a major threat to Russia. Doesn't look like a well though out propaganda strategy to me. Prior to the Iraq war we had months and months of scaremongering and atrocity stories and bullshit to justify it.
Im curious as to what the Russian people make of all this - especially if/when Kiev gets flattened by their Military (and many russians have friends and relatives living there) and more and more of thier sons and brothers come home in bodybags.

Russia is not a totalitarian state likes in Stalin's time. Protestors get arrested and beaten up - but they arent being massacred or sent to the gulags (yet?). Putin does not have total control of the media - especially socail medai - and the state does not run everything. Im no expert - but im not sure how much of Putins power is conditional on the the support of oligarchs, the military and other senior officials - if this goes proper shit show for (and there are hints that it might) maybe things could go very wrong for vlad very quickly.

Other thought is that I assumed that Russia would "shock and awe" ukraine - take out all their communications, air defence, air force and precision target key individuals (do they use drones much?) and then sweep in - instead they have gone in without securing air superiority - which looks reckless in the extreme. If (and still a big if - lots of propaganda flying around) they have seriously underestimated the Ukraine's defensive capability's - has this been in part to them being fed by misinformation from the western side - and this could turn into a massive beartrap that Putin has blundered into.
Their military has experience of fighting counter-insurgency wars in Afghanistan, Chechnya and Syria. The only proper army it has faced - i think - was the tiny Georgian military - in a conflict that lasted - what - 48 hours? They are now going toe to toe with a well equipped, large and highly motivated military across a vast area who will have been planning how to resist a Russian invasion since at least 2014.
Could it be they have gone in woefully unprepared, ill equipped and without proper planning? And/or have the russian military deliberately done this in a half arsed way becasue they were against it from the start?
Anyway - kind of freewheeling here - and trying not the get too hopeful - but still ...
Click to expand...
I've assumed the lack of shock and awe was precisely because there's no way that could be sold at home.
 
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