UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Especially when they aren't actually fighting.
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
Especially when they aren't actually fighting.
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
I'd rather see Soundgarden tbh
TopCat
Putin fanboy
And the new left?
Pro-NATO afaics.
They're fighting on the instructions of the clique of neocons who seized control of the US government after Biden passed away. The American people want no part of it.
Sure can. You weren't aware of this?
Just how many US troops and spies do we have in Ukraine?
In the wake of the leaks and a drip-drip of info over the last year, one lawmaker is demanding clarity from the White House.
responsiblestatecraft.org
It does if your plan is to use a battlefield nuke, attribute it to your opponent, and use strategic nukes in retaliation.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Yes, stop trying to tantalise.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
No I don't usually read stuff from the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft - Wikipedia. However, that the article doesn't say that there are US troops fighting in Ukraine, although there may be some military adviser's floating around.Sure can. You weren't aware of this?
Just how many US troops and spies do we have in Ukraine?
In the wake of the leaks and a drip-drip of info over the last year, one lawmaker is demanding clarity from the White House.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I’m not one for whitewashing the Soviets , however I’m interested about your source for these figures .
The OUM first began its executions of Jews and Poles in the short period between the German invasion and the Soviet invasion . As you know it’s involvement in the Holocaust increased two years later when the Nazis declared war on the Soviets . In your view what was the reason for this ?
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Maybe posting in the middle of the night is bad for your mental equilibrium and understanding of reality. Ukrainians are fighting because they were attacked and invaded. No one outside of Ukraine instructed them. I think you are in danger of not being taken seriously. Or has that already happened?
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
nogojones
spelling is overrated
I didn't check, but I'm sure them sort of numbers are quoted on wiki here and there (not perfect I know). There's also anecdote. Both my paternal grandparents, a couple of aunts, some cousins and quite a bit of extended family died in the gulag (or before they had a chance to get there). Only two survived to tell the tale.
The ethnic cleansing of Poles and Jews, if not written down on paper seemed pretty much like OUN- B policy in order to create a Ukrainian state and was carried out enthusiastically.
I tend to believe this enthusiastic ethnic cleansing was driven, not just by fascistic nationalism, but also from the class and ethnic structure of pre-war Poland. Ethnic Ukrainians under the Polish state tended to be the poorer peasants. Their landlords were invariably Polish. This is not to excuse any of their actions.
There was also the UPA directive to get as many of their members into the German Auxiliary Police as possible, in order to get access to weapons and it was that same auxiliary police that were responsible for some of the worst aspects of the Holocaust. Eventually when the Nazis were on the back foot large sections mutinied and went over to the UPA and would have brought a hell of a lot of war criminals with them.
A couple of useful books are E. Bjorkman et al. - Ukraine's Claim to Freedom. Published in 1915, it looks quite a bit at the class nature of the Polish occupation and is mostly written from a Russian/Ukrainian Social Democratic Labour Party/ Social Revolutionary perspective.
Less so would be John Anderson's - Ukrainian Nationalism 1939-45, which while going into great detail of the OUN/UPAs history, really doesn't say much about the big fucking elephant in their room.
ETA - yeah, in terms of numbers scroll down to "Spring 1945-Late 1946" and beyond for figures relating to Soviet repression up to the early 50's
Ukrainian Insurgent Army - Wikipedia
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
There is no loonacy to which dwyer will not ascend
dilute micro
esse quam videri
When did this happen?
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
In his head.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
That's how Kennedy got it too
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
It would appear [from livemap] that Ukraine has knocked out another Growler {S-400 SAM system}, this one was in Belgorod oblast.
liveuamap.com
source:
Security Service of Ukraine reportedly hit S-400 SAM in Belgorod region of Russia overnight Belgorod - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com
Security Service of Ukraine reportedly hit S-400 SAM in Belgorod region of Russia overnight . Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues...
liveuamap.com
Nylock
I hate 'these days'...
The 'neocon clique' was the least bastshit part of that post tbf. Batshit though that was in and of itself.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Thanks for the reply and for the recommendations. I sort of thought the period you were describing was post WW2 as I couldn’t see anything like those figures from the 1939-45 period .I didn't check, but I'm sure them sort of numbers are quoted on wiki here and there (not perfect I know). There's also anecdote. Both my paternal grandparents, a couple of aunts, some cousins and quite a it of extended family died in the gulag (or before they had a chance to get there). Only two survived to tell the tale.
The ethnic cleansing of Poles and Jews, if not written down on paper seemed pretty much like OUN- B policy in order to create a Ukrainian state and was carried out enthusiastically.
I tend to believe this enthusiastic ethnic cleansing was driven, not just by fascistic nationalism, but also from the class and ethnic structure of pre-war Poland. Ethnic Ukrainians under the Polish state tended to be the poorer peasants. Their landlords were invariably Polish. This is not to excuse any of their actions.
There was also the UPA directive to get as many of their members into the German Auxiliary Police as possible, in order to get access to weapons and it was that same auxiliary police that were responsible for some of the worst aspects of the Holocaust. Eventually when the Nazis were on the back foot large sections mutinied and went over to the UPA and would have brought a hell of a lot of war criminals with them.
A couple of useful books are E. Bjorkman et al. - Ukraine's Claim to Freedom. Published in 1915, it looks quite a bit at the class nature of the Polish occupation and is mostly written from a Russian/Ukrainian Social Democratic Labour Party/ Social Revolutionary perspective.
Less so would be John Anderson's - Ukrainian Nationalism 1939-45, which while going into great detail of the OUN/UPAs history, really doesn't say much about the big fucking elephant in their room.
ETA - yeah, in terms of numbers scroll down to "Spring 1945-Late 1946" and beyond for figures relating to Soviet repression up to the early 50's
Ukrainian Insurgent Army - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I don’t see any difference in level of antisemtism and support for fascism between OUN-B ( the Banderites) and OUN -M and in the former case it’s very much key to their vision for their plans for revolution and consolidation of an ethnically pure state built on the Nazi model of one nation , one party, one state . OUMs fellow travellers and role models in Europe were the fascists who the Nazis allowed to declare the Slovak state in 1939 and the Croatian state 1941, and it was to the Nazis that they looked to grant them independence.
‘ of all the independent Nations the fate of the Slovakian’s and Croatians was closest to ours ‘
In terms of unraveling the Banderite myth that was built up by the OUN , as an international organisation after it was dispersed after the surrender of the Nazis ( with little or no screening what so ever ) I found Stefan Bandera -The Life and Afterlife of a Ukrainian Nationalist by Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe to be the most thorough in stripping away the sanitised version of Bandera which was manufactured and utilised in the Cold War period to the present day .
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
So without american "instructions" the people of ukraine would have been showering those russian armoured columns with flowers?
This idea that nefarious deep state operative within the US order world affairs is such utter bollocks. Like most government they try to infuence events - with widely varied results but more often than not they respond to dynamic events - soviet invasion of afghanistan, fall the berlin wall, collopse of the soviet union, the WTC attacks, the taliban, the rise of ISIS, trump, the arab spring, the madien uprising - none of these were planned by the CIA or whoever or predictable (or certainly werent predicted by the US) and many of them were the unforseen blowback of previous us interventions (i.e. in irag and afghanistan) . Sure the US had and has influence in Ukraine - but nothing like Russia had - and nothing like the "influence" of smashing the country to shit and massacreing its people in their thousands.
Just becasue a handful of people within the US state have been hankering for a more hawskish policy towards putin doen not mean that the US has "got what it wanted" - noboby wanted a massive, expensive, hugely disrupitve and destrcutive war in Ukraine other than fucking putin. And - you know what? - maybe if the US had been a lot tougher on putin from the start we wouldnt be this position now.
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StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
Apparently, sometime late last year, the US Navy seized a few rifles, a quantity of 7.62mm ammunition and a few other things that were being smuggled by fishing boat ...
These have now been donated to Ukraine ...
liveuamap.com
These have now been donated to Ukraine ...
The US will transfer thousands of seized Iranian weapons and rounds of ammunition to Ukraine, in a move that could help to alleviate some of the shortages facing the Ukrainian military as it awaits more money and equipment from the US and its allies
The US will transfer thousands of seized Iranian weapons and rounds of ammunition to Ukraine, in a move that could help to alleviate some of the shortages facing the Ukrainian military as it awaits more money and equipment from the US and its allies. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a...
liveuamap.com
Does anyone actually believe Biden is in control of USA? This guy would have trouble tying his own shoe laces.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
I know, it's the Jews, isn't it?
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