Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[nogojones]

And executing Jews and Poles at the same time so very busy

Then the Soviets came in and executed 200,000 Western Ukrainians and tortured and sent another 300-400 thousand to the gulag where many died.

Busy times all round.

 

[phildwyer]

Naom chomsky mentioned all this few year's ago

He mentioned it this year too. Chomsky's one of the few American commentators who makes sense on Ukraine:

Noam Chomsky: Russia is fighting more humanely than the US did in Iraq

The US linguist on the war in Ukraine, how the West is provoking China and why the UK is “not an independent country anymore”.

www.newstatesman.com

 

[phildwyer]

Interesting article on waning support. Electoral politics begin to bite into Ukraine support

Decent quotes from involved people.

It's certainly true in the USA. The American people have no desire to fight this war, and will vote for whoever opposes it most strongly.

 

[phildwyer]

Iraq wasn't a NATO policy. If France or Germany had shared a border in the area, they'd have refused too (pity the UK wouldn't have). It's totally irrelevant. Hungary is already far more pro-Russia than Slovakia and it's not made a lick of difference in NATO's policies. What exactly do you think it will change?

It's the thin end of the wedge. Public support for this war is crumbling fast, and Slovakia should give other electorates the impetus to wrest the steering wheel away from their governments before they drive off the cliff.

 

[editor]

Then the Soviets came in and executed 200,000 Western Ukrainians and tortured and sent another 300-400 thousand to the gulag where many died.

Busy times all round.

BLOODY NATO AGAIN!

 

[editor]

It's certainly true in the USA. The American people have no desire to fight this war, and will vote for whoever opposes it most strongly.

And the reality:

Americans’ support for helping Ukraine remains strong. Just look at the polls.

Polling uncovering Americans' views of US aid to Ukraine should embolden US politicians to continue to advocate for Kyiv’s victory over the Russian invaders.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

 

[phildwyer]

And the reality:

Americans’ support for helping Ukraine remains strong. Just look at the polls.

Polling uncovering Americans' views of US aid to Ukraine should embolden US politicians to continue to advocate for Kyiv’s victory over the Russian invaders.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

I don't trust them thar new-fangled polling thangs. I talk to the peeps so I knows.

 

[phildwyer]

And the reality:

Americans’ support for helping Ukraine remains strong. Just look at the polls.

Polling uncovering Americans' views of US aid to Ukraine should embolden US politicians to continue to advocate for Kyiv’s victory over the Russian invaders.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

Majority of Americans oppose more US aid for Ukraine in war with Russia​

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/04/politics/cnn-poll-ukraine/index.html

Americans show signs of impatience with Ukraine war | Brookings

New polling reveals that Americans' support for the war in Ukraine is weakening. That should concern U.S. policymakers.

www.brookings.edu

 

[dilute micro]

It's certainly true in the USA. The American people have no desire to fight this war, and will vote for whoever opposes it most strongly.

But...

where will the opportunity arise to false flag nuke innocent allies, if not Ukraine?

 

[editor]

I don't trust them thar new-fangled polling thangs. I talk to the peeps so I knows.

Oh wait. But here you are quoting a poll. Make your mind up.

What 'peeps' do you talk to? Your YouTube grifting pals?

 

[phildwyer]

But...

where will the opportunity arise to false flag nuke innocent allies, if not Ukraine?

Tactical nukes can be used on the battlefield without harming your own side.

 

[phildwyer]

Oh wait. But here you are quoting a poll. Make your mind up.

What 'peeps' do you talk to? Your YouTube grifting pals?

I meet a lot of veterans. They were very enthusiastic twenty years ago, at the start of the second Iraq war. Many of them came home wounded, traumatised and comprehensively disillusioned. Many concluded that they had been tricked into fighting. There's no enthusiasm whatsoever for fighting over Ukraine.

 

[editor]

I meet a lot of veterans. They were very enthusiastic twenty years ago, at the start of the second Iraq war. Many of them came home wounded, traumatised and comprehensively disillusioned. Many concluded that they had been tricked into fighting. There's no enthusiasm whatsoever for fighting over Ukraine.

Who needs modern scientific polling to find out what America thinks when we can have Dwyer's unsourced, unverified, totally anecdotal opinions from a truly microscopic amount of unnamed voices from an incredibly narrow demographic, eh?

 

[tim]

UK has taken tge poodle stance again .Just like Blair was a yes man fir George Bush.

Rishi is a yes man for the one's pulling the strings for Biden .

I love the sound of antiSemitic dog whistling in the afternoon.

 

[phildwyer]

Who needs modern scientific polling to find out what America thinks when we can have Dwyer's unsourced, unverified, totally anecdotal opinions from a truly microscopic amount of unnamed voices from an incredibly narrow demographic, eh?

Polling isn't "scientific" at all. Polls can easily be manipulated, they're usually wrong, and frankly you'd have to be mad to trust 'em.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe your experience of the USA is limited to the North-east? That's the Dems heartland, it's not representative of the country as a whole. Go to Texas and ask them what they think of "Biden's war."

 

[tim]

Well maybe 1941 to 1945? The period between September 1939 and June 1941 was, er, complicated.

The Finnish Army had a battlefield synagogue whilst alongside the their German allies against the USSR and three Finnish Jews were awarded the Iron Cross.

Astonishing Story of Survival by Jews of Finland

The history of the Jews of Finland that John Simon relates in his new book, “Strangers in a Stranger Land,” is an extraordinary tale of Jewish survival during World War II.

www.google.com

 

[Raheem]

Go to Texas and ask them what they think of "Biden's war."

How will they have time when they're all talking to you?

 

[editor]

Polling isn't "scientific" at all. Polls can easily be manipulated, they're usually wrong, and frankly you'd have to be mad to trust 'em.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe your experience of the USA is limited to the North-east? That's the Dems heartland, it's not representative of the country as a whole. Go to Texas and ask them what they think of "Biden's war."

Here: educate yourself: Public Opinion Polling Basics

Unlike you, I'm very keen not to make this thread all about me, so where I've worked or visited in the States is utterly, totally irrelevant to the war in Ukraine. And you're totally fucking wrong anyway.

 

[emanymton]

‘If people really knew the truth, the war would stop tomorrow’

Ben Chacko recommends Chris Nineham’s new pamphlet which lucidly separates the propaganda chaff from the...

www.stopwar.org.uk

"If people really knew the truth, the war would stop tomorrow"

Snappy title

 

[tim]

Go to Texas and ask them what they think of "Biden's war."

I can't imagine he spends much time speaking to the 46.48% of Texans who voted for Biden in the 2020 Presidential election.

Obviously that was a poll and as Dwyer said you can't trust polls.

 

[phildwyer]

I can't imagine he spends much time speaking to the 46.48% of Texans who voted for Biden in the 2020 Presidential election.

Obviously that was a poll and as Dwyer said you can't trust polls.

Just because they voted for Biden doesn't mean they support the war. I mean seriously, think about this for a second. Why would an American want to fight for Zelensky?

 

[JimW]

"If people really knew the truth, the war would stop tomorrow"

Snappy title

And patently untrue; kind of draws you in, doesn't it?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Just because they voted for Biden doesn't mean they support the war. I mean seriously, think about this for a second. Why would an American want to fight for Zelensky?

But you claim the Ukrainians are fighting for the Americans, in their proxy war.

 

[tim]

Just because they voted for Biden doesn't mean they support the war. I mean seriously, think about this for a second. Why would an American want to fight for Zelensky?

Think seriously for five minutes. Can you think of any Americans who have been sent by Biden to fight for Zelensky?

 

[tim]

But you claim the Ukrainians are fighting for the Americans, in their proxy war.

But according to Elohim, it's not the Americans they're fighting but for Those who are pulling the strings and neither do we know who is telling Them to pull which string or who makes the strings.

 

[Fez909]

Tactical nukes can be used on the battlefield without harming your own side.

Doesn't even need to be tactical. Or on the battlefield. Why not just nuke your own country with bomb massive enough to disable all electronics?



The only "harm" is a return to '93, apparently.

 

[two sheds]

That's right though, why on earth would any Americans want to fund a country that was fighting with USA's long-time ally Russia, killing its soldiers and weakening its army and its influence.

 

[PTK]

Doesn't even need to be tactical. Or on the battlefield. Why not just nuke your own country with bomb massive enough to disable all electronics?



The only "harm" is a return to '93, apparently.

So, we have only had electrical devices sine 1993?

 

[Raheem]

Not a bad war if it ends with us all getting tickets to see Nirvana.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not a bad war if it ends with us all getting tickets to see Nirvana.

On the negative side we'd have to listen to things can only get better another thousand times