Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[emanymton]

So what are your very different reasons for supporting the tory arming of Ukraine?

I oppose imperialist wars of aggression and support a countries right to self determination and a people's right to defend themselves against an invading army.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

View attachment 380988

Not him: if that's Tyrion he’s wise and clever with a sense of humour, and acutely aware of his place in the world. None of those qualities Zelensky possesses, although perhaps he is clever, if enlarging NATO and dragging us all closer to nuclear war is clever. And a question for those who support the war: how about arming the Palestinian resistance then? Or at least sanctions given what is happening in Jerusalem?….No, thought not…

 

[Pickman's model]

I oppose imperialist wars of aggression and support a countries right to self determination and a people's right to defend themselves against an invading army

Sure Johnson would agree with 2/3, it's not really that different is it

 

[emanymton]

Sure Johnson would agree with 2/3, it's not really that different is it

He might say it but mean it?
Do you not agree with them then?

 

[Yossarian]

All I know about this Game of Thrones stuff is that a dragon killed a shitload of people and everybody thought the ending sucked, so I guess that doesn't bode well for the resolution of Russia's war in Ukraine

 

[Kaka Tim]

Not him: if that's Tyrion he’s wise and clever with a sense of humour, and acutely aware of his place in the world. None of those qualities Zelensky possesses, although perhaps he is clever, if enlarging NATO and dragging us all closer to nuclear war is clever. And a question for those who support the war: how about arming the Palestinian resistance then? Or at least sanctions given what is happening in Jerusalem?….No, thought not…

Best option would be not arming Israel to force them to negotiate - that option is not available WRT Russia.
What do you think would have happened to the people of Ukraine and its people the west had not given military support?

 

[tim]

Not him: if that's Tyrion he’s wise and clever with a sense of humour, and acutely aware of his place in the world. None of those qualities Zelensky possesses, although perhaps he is clever, if enlarging NATO and dragging us all closer to nuclear war is clever. And a question for those who support the war: how about arming the Palestinian resistance then? Or at least sanctions given what is happening in Jerusalem?….No, thought not…

Zelensky's place in the world is in a bunker underneath Kyiv with occasional trips out for photo-opportunities. His primary role is to be a figurehead championing and drumming up support for resistance to Putin's cack-handed and unravelling occupation. He's a professional actor so he has the necessary skills for that. Given the cruelty and ineptitude of that occupation, I don't think either he or the majority of Ukrainians worry about the highly-unlikely possibility of a nuclear war breaking out. In the Long-term Ukrainian membership of both NATO and the EU will eventually happen. The stupidity of the Russian regime has made that inevitable.

Perhaps, if you spent less time watching Game of Thrones, you would be able to produce a new edition of that semi-moribund journal of which you are so proud.

 

[Pickman's model]

He might say it but mean it?
Do you not agree with them then?

I have never agreed with them and if you find yourself agreeing with them you should take a cold hard look at yourself because somewhere you've gone very wrong

 

[TopCat]

Oh, you're one of those weirdos.

Its not weird to disagree with you.

 

[TopCat]

What character would Zelensky play in GoT?

The rottweiler dog that gets fucked up the arse. Oh sorry I thought you said GTA.

 

[strung out]

The rottweiler dog that gets fucked up the arse. Oh sorry I thought you said GTA.

You need help mate. Just a very unwell individual.

 

[Yossarian]

You need help mate. Just a very unwell individual.

And there I was thinking the Game of Thrones stuff was the bottom of the barrel

 

[TopCat]

Ukraine’s biggest enemy is the western belief that it cannot beat Putin. Now is the time to rethink that | Keir Giles

We must think beyond helping Kyiv survive and aim for Zelenskiy to actually win, says Keir Giles of Chatham House

www.theguardian.com

 

[friedaweed]

I remember reading somewhere George RR Marshall based Game of Thrones on seemingly interminable wars like Vietnam/Wars of the Roses/French Wars of Religion….

So is it just me who looks at the current conflict and sees GOT echoes? Pregozhin as Theon Greyjoy, Putin as Stannis Baratheon (minus any sense of rectitude). Not sure where the megalomaniac Zelensky fits in mind. Any ideas?

Bill Kenwright as Ned Stark Losing it a bit here Seymore.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Ukraine’s biggest enemy is the western belief that it cannot beat Putin. Now is the time to rethink that | Keir Giles

We must think beyond helping Kyiv survive and aim for Zelenskiy to actually win, says Keir Giles of Chatham House

www.theguardian.com

I'm not sure you'll find many here who will disagree?

 

[TopCat]

I'm not sure you'll find many here who will disagree?

Well it's a maximalist position, fully arm Ukraine, attack Russia. Bring down the Russian regime. I think people who support this need help to be frank.

 

[Flavour]

The idea is that a decisive defeat for the Russian Army in Ukraine would lead to the downfall of the regime without there needing to be any direct attack on Russia besides enabling Ukraine to defeat the occupying army.

 

[existentialist]

Well it's a maximalist position, fully arm Ukraine, attack Russia. Bring down the Russian regime. I think people who support this need help to be frank.

You would, of course, prefer that Ukraine be left to twist in the wind, and Russia allowed to prevail, right?

 

[TopCat]

The idea is that a decisive defeat for the Russian Army in Ukraine would lead to the downfall of the regime without there needing to be any direct attack on Russia besides enabling Ukraine to defeat the occupying army.

The Guardian article above goes further than that.

 

[tim]

Well it's a maximalist position, fully arm Ukraine, attack Russia. Bring down the Russian regime. I think people who support this need help to be frank.

Our Frank is frank about wanting to go a little further than that

Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

With all this western weaponry the Ukrainians are not advancing. So tell us what Ukraine should do.

www.urban75.net

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not sure you'll find many here who will disagree?

The place is crammed to the rafters with contrarians

 

[Pickman's model]

I think the UK should send troops to support Ukraine. Lord knows we've got enough of them sat around doing fuck all at ludicrous expense.

E2a: Actually I think UK forces should make their own way to Ukraine and volunteer to fight en masse. They're such brave lads after all, I'm sure they'd be happy to fight against a country with a non-zero capacity to defend itself for once.

So you think they should desert their current posts

 

[TopCat]

Our Frank is frank about wanting to go a little further than that

Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

With all this western weaponry the Ukrainians are not advancing. So tell us what Ukraine should do.

www.urban75.net

Thankfully I have had frank on ignore for years.

 

[Kaka Tim]

The place is crammed to the rafters with contrarians

No it's not.

 

[Artaxerxes]

You would, of course, prefer that Ukraine be left to twist in the wind, and Russia allowed to prevail, right?

Ukraine should negotiate, I’m sure noted authoritarian strongman and Make-USSR-Great-Again Putin will keep his word and not undermine or attempt to crusade and destroy Ukraine as an ethnicity and nation or sponsor massive endemic corruption

Zelensky should just trust in good faith like

 

[Pickman's model]

Ukraine should negotiate, I’m sure noted authoritarian strongman and Make-USSR-Great-Again Putin will keep his word and not undermine or attempt to crusade and destroy Ukraine as an ethnicity and nation or sponsor massive endemic corruption

Zelensky should just trust in good faith like

Don't think vp needs to sponsor corruption, its been a great issue in Ukraine since independence

 

[Artaxerxes]

Don't think vp needs to sponsor corruption, its been a great issue in Ukraine since independence

Sure but it was an even greater issue pre independence when it was another private fief of Russian based oligarchs

 

[tim]

Sure but it was an even greater issue pre independence when it was another private fief of Russian based oligarchs

Pre independence it was part of the USSR. Oligarchs In any of the post Soviet entities were a product of the period after the collapse.

 

[The39thStep]

I'm not sure you'll find many here who will disagree?

I imagine there a few on here who subscribe to Chatham House

 

[Pickman's model]

Sure but it was an even greater issue pre independence when it was another private fief of Russian based oligarchs

Oh dear