Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[editor]

Leaving aside the Molotov-Ribentop pact for a moment, what do you think Russia did in Poland 1944-1989?

Here's what they got up to at the beginning of the war...

Mikhail Kalinin was one of six Soviet Politburo signatories to the order to execute more than 21,000 Polish prisoners of war in the forests of Katyn and elsewhere in 1940.

Moscow initially blamed the Nazis for the Katyn Massacre when the Germans discovered the mass graves in 1943.
Because Moscow imposed a communist regime on Poland after World War Two, the relatives of the victims were unable to publicly discuss or find anything out about the crime for five decades. Russia only acknowledged its responsibility for the massacre in 1990.

Kaliningrad: Russia fury as Poland body recommends renaming exclave - BBC News

A Polish state body says dropping the "imposed name" is partly a result of Russia invading Ukraine.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[TopCat]

Here's what they got up to at the beginning of the war...

Kaliningrad: Russia fury as Poland body recommends renaming exclave - BBC News

A Polish state body says dropping the "imposed name" is partly a result of Russia invading Ukraine.

www.bbc.co.uk

What’s the relevance of the last article you posted up? Did you read it before adding it may I ask?

 

[strung out]

What’s the relevance of the last article you posted up? Did you read it before adding it may I ask?

The quote comes from the article. Not sure if you read it? I'm guessing editor decided to post a link to where the quote came from. Kaliningrad is named after one of the guys who signed the order to execute 21,000 PoWs.

You can read more about the massacre here, although I know you're generally fine with executing PoWs, so maybe you're not so interested in it: Katyn massacre - Wikipedia

 

[TopCat]

The quote comes from the article. Not sure if you read it? I'm guessing editor decided to post a link to where the quote came from. Kaliningrad is named after one of the guys who signed the order to execute 21,000 PoWs.

You can read more about the massacre here, although I know you're generally fine with executing PoWs, so maybe you're not so interested in it: Katyn massacre - Wikipedia

I cry no tears for dead Azov Nazis.

How about address how half of those killed in the Holocaust died in Poland and the indifference at best of much of the Polish population to this, and at worst actively hunting down those deemed to die?

 

[editor]

What’s the relevance of the last article you posted up? Did you read it before adding it may I ask?

Err, we were discussing what Russia did to Poland during WW2 and I posted up a shocking example that's in the news today.

And I read the full article. And now that I've answered your questions, perhaps you could offer your thoughts on Russia massacring 21,000 Polish prisoners of war, denying it for 47 years and silencing the families of the murdered?

 

[existentialist]

I cry no tears for dead Azov Nazis.

How about address how half of those killed in the Holocaust died in Poland and the indifference at best of much of the Polish population to this, and at worst actively hunting down those deemed to die?

I think you are letting your obsession with "Azov Nazis" - whom you seem to mention at every opportunity - cloud your judgement on the broader issues.

 

[The39thStep]

Surely it must be possible to construct or negotiate a more balanced narrative which appreciates all of the different and complex victim experiences under National Socialist and Stalinist rule?

 

[RedRedRose]

The Historians Under Attack for Exploring Poland’s Role in the Holocaust

This is a decent article examining the Polish states role in attempting to revise and erase polish involvement in the holocaust.

It tends to provide the context (for me) as to antagonistic attitudes towards the Russians.

Genuinely mystified by this. You think Poland hates Russia because modern Poland won't face up to its anti-semitism?

What about Poland disappearing for 150 years?
The Polish-Soviet war?
The Nazi-Soviet Pact?
The Katyn massacre?
Poland blaming Russia for not supporting the Warsaw Uprising?
Poland being occupied from 1944 onwards?

 

[Pickman's model]

Genuinely mystified by this. You think Poland hates Russia because modern Poland won't face up to its anti-semitism?

What about Poland disappearing for 150 years?
The Polish-Soviet war?
The Nazi-Soviet Pact?
The Katyn massacre?
Poland blaming Russia for not supporting the Warsaw Uprising?
Poland being occupied from 1944 onwards?

Poland being bumped over from its previous borders etc

 

[Pickman's model]

Leaving aside the Molotov-Ribentop pact for a moment, what do you think Russia did in Poland 1944-1989?

Not to mention for many years before ww1

 

[RedRedRose]

Poland being bumped over from its previous borders etc

You're right. The Potsdam Conference moved Poland as a country westwards, mainly at the expense of the Germans.

 

[B.I.G]

I cry no tears for dead Azov Nazis.

How about address how half of those killed in the Holocaust died in Poland and the indifference at best of much of the Polish population to this, and at worst actively hunting down those deemed to die?

You are incredibly thick and offensive to millions of people.

Its a shame Russia can’t pop by your house and shoot your family dead so I can pop by and say I cry no tears for you.

 

[TopCat]

Err, we were discussing what Russia did to Poland during WW2 and I posted up a shocking example that's in the news today.

And I read the full article. And now that I've answered your questions, perhaps you could offer your thoughts on Russia massacring 21,000 Polish prisoners of war, denying it for 47 years and silencing the families of the murdered?

You posted several articles, the last one, on the BBC focused on Russian fury at the renaming of Kalingrad? What are your thoughts on the article? I think you just get cross, spend thirty seconds looking for something to post up and then do it, perhaps followed by some ignorant bombast.

 

[existentialist]

You are incredibly thick and offensive to millions of people.

Its a shame Russia can’t pop by your house and shoot your family dead so I can pop by and say I cry no tears for you.

TBH, I wouldn't wish Russia on anyone. Not even TopCat.

 

[existentialist]

You posted several articles, the last one, on the BBC focused on Russian fury at the renaming of Kalingrad? What are your thoughts on the article? I think you just get cross, spend thirty seconds looking for something to post up and then do it, perhaps followed by some ignorant bombast.

"Ignorant bombast", eh? Now there's a thing...

 

[TopCat]

You are incredibly thick and offensive to millions of people.

Its a shame Russia can’t pop by your house and shoot your family dead so I can pop by and say I cry no tears for you.

Thanks ever so

 

[Spymaster]

Its a shame Russia can’t pop by your house and shoot your family dead so I can pop by and say I cry no tears for you.

Unnecessary.

 

[TopCat]

Surely it must be possible to construct or negotiate a more balanced narrative which appreciates all of the different and complex victim experiences under National Socialist and Stalinist rule?

It might be possible but it's unlikely to happen here.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Not to mention for many years before ww1

I try to keep my Whataboutisms within a century or so.

 

[TopCat]

Unnecessary.

I have been given a warning by an unnamed Mod not to swear at people on this thread. It's a bit one way given the amount of swearing coming my way. Wishing myself and my family dead is a new departure.

 

[B.I.G]

Unnecessary.

Necessary.

Go tell the people whose children were taken from them and whose families murdered that I said something mean to someone on the Internet. Someone that would have given the order to commit those atrocities because it was NATO’s fault.

 

[TopCat]

Necessary.

Go tell the people whose children were taken from them and whose families murdered that I said something mean to someone on the Internet. Someone that would have given the order to commit those atrocities because it was NATO’s fault.

Keep going why don't you, I'm less cross now and laughing at you.

 

[maomao]

Pretty talented coming on a thread where everyone's taking potshots at the same poster and still instantly come across as the biggest cunt in the room.

 

[Gerry1time]

Any chance we could just rename this the 'Everyone discuss Topcat's personal opinions' thread, and start a new one that actually discusses the war in Ukraine?

 

[Yossarian]

It's a shame we don't seem to have any Polish posters who could share their thoughts on shrugging off Soviet atrocities and blaming Poles for the Holocaust

 

[The39thStep]

Pretty talented coming on a thread where everyone's taking potshots at the same poster and still instantly come across as the biggest cunt in the room.

I’m intrigued that it’s only because we are in NATO that Mr B.I.G is unable to pop round to TopCat ’s house to say ‘I cry no tears for you’ over the loss of his family .

 

[editor]

You are incredibly thick and offensive to millions of people.

Its a shame Russia can’t pop by your house and shoot your family dead so I can pop by and say I cry no tears for you.

That's way over the line. No more please.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

It's a shame we don't seem to have any Polish posters who could share their thoughts on shrugging off Soviet atrocities and blaming Poles for the Holocaust

I mean, I live in Poland, am half Hungarian, and am married to a half-pole.

And I could give my insight, but personally I'd rather listen to a washed out 50 something British trade unionist bloke on the REAL reason why Russia is so great (and 21,000 dead Polish inteligencji massacred were all AZOV NAZIS WOT 'AD IT CUMIN').

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Which is better? Werewolves or Vampires? Or Zombies? Or are they all crap?

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Also. FYIs:

Kaliningrad in Polish has ALWAYS been known as Królowice, because it's the direct translation of Konigsberg which was how it was called in Prussia.

You know, like how the Brits like to call Wein - Vienna or München - Munich.

Where is Presburg again?