Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[Artaxerxes]

It's just historical rememberance though surely? It's like pointing at the Lancaster or Spitfire when they do flypast on events here and thinking that's the RAF now isn't it?

Not really, the May parade is more akin to showing how strong Russia is and how mighty its armies and equipment are. It’s not akin to the flypast here at the weekend it’s a symbol by itself.

T-34 is a usual feature at the parade but if there’s a lack of modern kit or men in the parade it’s important.

 

[Dystopiary]

This is one take on why this year's event was going to be scaled down.

In the cities where the parades will go ahead, experts say a close read of the celebrations is likely to show the strain and damage the war has afflicted on the military.

“Most of the military parades will only have conscripts marching because all the contract soldiers are in Ukraine,” said Dara Massicot, a senior policy researcher at the Rand Corporation.

“With so much of the ground forces engaged in Ukraine, some regions will be forced to get creative and have military instructors and other personnel play a more prominent role to give the appearance of normality,” Massicot added.

One of 9 May’s most recognisable events, the Immortal Regiment march – a solemn procession of people with portraits of their second world war veteran relatives – has also been scrapped this year.

One explanation for such a move, Massicot said, is that the authorities worry the procession could end up highlighting the real number of Russian losses in Ukraine, with relatives bringing the portraits of those killed in the current war.

A ‘nervousness never seen before’ hits Moscow before Victory Day parades

 

[The39thStep]

This is one take on why this year's event was going to be scaled down.





A ‘nervousness never seen before’ hits Moscow before Victory Day parades

I'm not familiar with the Rand Corporation, who are they?

 

[WouldBe]

Bit difficult fielding any more tanks when that's all they have left.

 

[strung out]

I'm not familiar with the Rand Corporation, who are they?

RAND rather than Rand (if you're thinking they're something to do with Ayn Rand or Randian ideology) - they're a research institute/think-tank, the name comes from 'Research And Development'.

Claim to be non-partisan, though they're funded by a range of orgs, including US Gov, universities, charities and all sorts.

Had never heard of them until this present conflict, but they've had a lot of Nobel winners work for them and seem to be concerned with everything from global security to economics, global warming and public policy.

More here: RAND Corporation - Wikipedia

 

[editor]

 

[Pickman's model]

But what do you think?

 

[JimW]

RAND rather than Rand (if you're thinking they're something to do with Ayn Rand or Randian ideology) - they're a research institute/think-tank, the name comes from 'Research And Development'.

Claim to be non-partisan, though they're funded by a range of orgs, including US Gov, universities, charities and all sorts.

Had never heard of them until this present conflict, but they've had a lot of Nobel winners work for them and seem to be concerned with everything from global security to economics, global warming and public policy.

More here: RAND Corporation - Wikipedia

They're the kind of wonks Adam Curtis gets exercised about aren't they? Pioneers of game theory and "objective" analysis to TINA political questions.
ETA Found this, says Dr Strangelove was modelled on one of RAND's analysts: The Rand Corporation: The Think Tank That Controls America

 

[T & P]

2024 Parade in full:

 

[TopCat]

But what do you think?

Maybe get a meme soon to explain.

 

[tim]

Parade edited highlights

 

[MickiQ]

2024 Parade in full:

The Mystery Machine deffo needs a fresh coat of paint there

 

[gosub]

Whens the next Ukrainan Young Farmers Club do?
Theyve got some kit

 

[The39thStep]

They're the kind of wonks Adam Curtis gets exercised about aren't they? Pioneers of game theory and "objective" analysis to TINA political questions.
ETA Found this, says Dr Strangelove was modelled on one of RAND's analysts: The Rand Corporation: The Think Tank That Controls America

That's some article. Why would the Guardian look to them for comment?

 

[JimW]

That's some article. Why would the Guardian look to them for comment?

They built the world we live in, only fair they should be asked to explain what they've done now and again

 

[redsquirrel]

They're the kind of wonks Adam Curtis gets exercised about aren't they? Pioneers of game theory and "objective" analysis to TINA political questions.
ETA Found this, says Dr Strangelove was modelled on one of RAND's analysts: The Rand Corporation: The Think Tank That Controls America

They're the enemy.
Which does not mean that their analysis cannot be useful but it is deeply political (if not partisan for a particular US political party) and should be treated as such

 

[JimW]

They're the enemy.
Which does not mean that their analysis cannot be useful but it is deeply political (if not partisan for a particular US political party) and should be treated as such

The bit in that article about their analysis of free versus individual pay healthcare tells you all you need to know.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Maybe get a meme soon to explain.

 

[Pickman's model]

View attachment 374001

So in your meme putin is editor?

 

[agricola]

RAND rather than Rand (if you're thinking they're something to do with Ayn Rand or Randian ideology) - they're a research institute/think-tank, the name comes from 'Research And Development'.

Claim to be non-partisan, though they're funded by a range of orgs, including US Gov, universities, charities and all sorts.

Had never heard of them until this present conflict, but they've had a lot of Nobel winners work for them and seem to be concerned with everything from global security to economics, global warming and public policy.

More here: RAND Corporation - Wikipedia

sorry for this, but you'd never heard of the RAND Corporation before?

 

[strung out]

sorry for this, but you'd never heard of the RAND Corporation before?

Nope, not until the war started and I started seeing their analyses popping up everywhere. Or at least, not in a way that had stuck out in my memory.

Neither had The39thStep, but maybe it's just us.

 

[A380]

The UK doesn’t have the equivalent of RAND, I suppose if you took RUSI, Chatham House and some of the ex civil servant Think tanks you might get close but nothing like the scale of RAND. They aren’t just military and intelligence but they do focus on those areas.

Their products do have a definite political slant, but are often a good place to start if you are looking at a new area and /or want to see what the US ‘establishment’ line is likely to be.

(In someways their products are a little like the FT in that they are where the establishment tries to provide itself with information not the propaganda put out for the public…)

 

[The39thStep]

Nope, not until the war started and I started seeing their analyses popping up everywhere. Or at least, not in a way that had stuck out in my memory.

Neither had The39thStep, but maybe it's just us.

Obviously we are mixing with the wrong company .

 

[The39thStep]

Interesting take from one of the NAFO founders

 

[TopCat]

Interesting take from one of the NAFO founders

Hardens attitudes reading shit like that.

 

[kebabking]

Interesting take from one of the NAFO founders

I've heard the same thing many times in Eastern Europe. I think it's a huge, gaping hole in our (societal) general understanding of the world they live in - that they resent, and despise the Russians at least as much as they do the Nazis.

It was once explained to me by a very senior Latvian diplomat - she was in her late fifties, she'd worked under the Soviets in her 20's, and then for Latvia as an independent state. She said it was like having two men abduct and rape you, they then fall out, and one kills the other. He then spends the next 40 years beating and raping you - what gratitude do you feel towards the one for killing the other?

 

[The39thStep]

I've heard the same thing many times in Eastern Europe. I think it's a huge, gaping hole in our (societal) general understanding of the world they live in - that they resent, and despise the Russians at least as much as they do the Nazis.

It was once explained to me by a very senior Latvian diplomat - she was in her late fifties, she'd worked under the Soviets in her 20's, and then for Latvia as an independent state. She said it was like having two men abduct and rape you, they then fall out, and one kills the other. He then spends the next 40 years beating and raping you - what gratitude do you feel towards the one for killing the other?

Interesting. I wouldn't want to tarnish every Latvian with a duty to explain Latvia in WW2 however as a senior diplomat did she address the issue of the holocaust in Latvia and fighting for the Nazis? What did she think of NATO and Russia signing up to the Partnership for Peace programme in the 1990s ?

( I appreciate that this was your work role so it may not have been pertinent for you to raise such issues)

 

[TopCat]

Latvian collaboration with the Nazis was quite extensive no?

 

[TopCat]

The Historians Under Attack for Exploring Poland’s Role in the Holocaust

This is a decent article examining the Polish states role in attempting to revise and erase polish involvement in the holocaust.

It tends to provide the context (for me) as to antagonistic attitudes towards the Russians.

 

[Artaxerxes]

The Historians Under Attack for Exploring Poland’s Role in the Holocaust

This is a decent article examining the Polish states role in attempting to revise and erase polish involvement in the holocaust.

It tends to provide the context (for me) as to antagonistic attitudes towards the Russians.

The Historians Under Attack for Exploring Poland’s Role in the Holocaust

This is a decent article examining the Polish states role in attempting to revise and erase polish involvement in the holocaust.

It tends to provide the context (for me) as to antagonistic attitudes towards the Russians.

Leaving aside the Molotov-Ribentop pact for a moment, what do you think Russia did in Poland 1944-1989?