Fuck sakes, you seem massively agitated against fascists and some of the Ukrainian army may well have been of that ilk, great. Putin is a fucking carbon copy of Hitler ffs, any support of anything other than the total failure of his invasion is supporting fascism, end of.
When did Russia become fascist ?
Ta. I'll respond to you but I'd like to also hear from those posters who label Russia as fascist why they see it as fascist and understand when, in their view, it became fascist.Oh shit I keep meaning to try and come back to that after you asked. Been listening to a few discussions that have argued both ways and I'm less sure, although think the categorisation of it is it's less important than it's actual activity. Synder goes on about schizo-fascism which is interesting.
Oh shit I keep meaning to try and come back to that after you asked. Been listening to a few discussions that have argued both ways and I'm less sure, although think the categorisation of it is it's less important than it's actual activity. Synder goes on about schizo-fascism which is interesting.
Let's just stuck to the 1960s def of things people don't like rather than tripping through the fascist minimumI mean we'd have to discuss what fascism is first/as well, which might take a fair bit of time!
I mean we'd have to discuss what fascism is first/as well, which might take a fair bit of time!
Well quite, which is why I want someone else to have an urban bunfight which I can then peruse at leisure.
When did Russia become fascist ?
I’m with Cid!
Autocracy very different from fascism. Do you think eg Nicholas ii, the famous autocrat, similar to putin?When Putin passed his law in 2021 that let him run for president again and again and gave him lifetime immunity from prosecution. OK 'Fascism' may a quite be the right word for his shtick, but 'autocracy' fits just fine. Stalin is a better comparison than Hitler IMO but it's dancing on a pinhead really.
When Putin passed his law in 2021 that let him run for president again and again and gave him lifetime immunity from prosecution. OK 'Fascism' may not quite be the right word for his shtick, but 'autocracy' fits just fine. Stalin is a better comparison than Hitler IMO but it's dancing on a pinhead really.
Autocracy very different from fascism. Do you think eg Nicholas ii, the famous autocrat, similar to putin?
People use the term fascism in varying ways. Partly because there was no one pan-European political movement with one definable ideology or praxis. The things which united them included the symbolism and trappings of flags, banners, uniforms and anthems, the belief in strong leadership and uses of violence, patriotism and nationalism and concurrent racism and discrimination against linguistic minorities, authoritarianism, patriarchy, anti-communism. But there were big differences too. The 'scientific racism' of the Nazis was a minority trend until they came to dominate the continent. An extreme right wing Catholicism was prevalent in Spanish, Croatian, Slovakian fascism but not the same even in Italy and obviously not where Catholicism was not strong.
A lot of that applied to Stalin in his heyday too. Not so very different. Which is why it's so easy to conflate Hitler and Stalin.
If fascism back in the early 20th century is hard to define exactly then how much more difficult today when societies, economies, technology and national borders have all changed so much? Plus, the historical baggage of the 2nd world war and the Holocaust mean that many (not all) fascist leaning movements distance themselves from some of the symbolism and slogans of the past.
So, for my money, a person/party/state that is militaristic, authoritarian, nationalistic, totalitarian might as well be called fascist as anything else. Not compulsory, but an option. You could call Putin a fascist or you could just call him a fucking, murderous bastard. The choice is yours.
Dunno. Under Stalin you might as well have done, save that fascists and Nazis were all so anti-Bolshevik. The USSR retreated from some of that after Stalin died, but left in place the authoritarianism, nationalism, militarism. Then perestroika, Gorbachev and Yeltsin, break-up of the USSR. Putin comes along and it's been a gradual movement towards a variant of fascism. There was not the same need to seize power that the Nazis, or Mussolini or Franco had, because Putin was already in power, so the change was more gradual. Russia today is not as authoritarian as it was under communism, but the direction of travel is obvious.So when did Russia reach the stage when, by your definition, we might as well call it fascist anyway?
True, but Hitler was not fascism either. He was the leader of a German variant, atypically came to power through democratic means, only came to be seen as a fascist archetype in retrospect after WW2. He was also not as totalitarian as he would have liked either.Putin is not Hitler either. These comparisons hide more than they illuminate. Obviously doesn’t mean he’s just misunderstood.
Russia is not a totalitarian regime, but that’s not for want of Putin’s trying to make it so. He has pulled everything from the playbook. And totalitarianism does matter, not least because baked into it is the need to create enemies out of everyone that isn’t you.What is this obsession with labelling as fascism? Like it crosses some threshold and becomes more easily understood? It doesn’t actually help anyone’s understanding other than supplying some preconceived notions of what Russia is like. Russia is not a totalitarian regime. It is an autocratic nationalistic authoritarian one for my money.
That sounds more like Hitler than MussoliniThe simplistic issue and problem is that the label of 'fascism' has come to have (at least three) different usages. It is often used as shorthand for any autocratic and dictatorial government (that doesn't have a fig leaf of redistribution about it.) So regimes such as Putin's Russia or Iran are described as fascist. Then the, closer to 'true fascism' definition that sees a degree of exultation to 'nation' and or 'race' above the individual and uses that philosophy to drive economic and social control. Then there is the tendency for people on the left and in the centre to use it as a label for any far right ideology wether that be truly fascist or indeed authoritarian or not.
(Plus of course the fourth 'Student Grant' school of politics to label anyone with a different political approach to the speaker , or any state or public servant as facist!).
On the the one hand it is useful shorthand, but on the other can lead to the kind of issues we see on this thread and elsewhere.
A thread might be interesting to unpick it from this thread on the war.
My Personal view, worth no more and no less than anyone else's, is that the Putin regime doesn't fit 'my' definition of fascism, instead its a kleptocratic authoritarian regime, lead by a man who is trying to make it a dictatorship.
Most of the last page or so sounds like something that should be on a different thread.That sounds more like Hitler than Mussolini
Russia is not a totalitarian regime, but that’s not for want of Putin’s trying to make it so. He has pulled everything from the playbook. And totalitarianism does matter, not least because baked into it is the need to create enemies out of everyone that isn’t you.
Most of the last page or so sounds like something that should be on a different thread.
Neither armchair generals, not armchair political analysts!