Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[Jeff Robinson]

Neo-Hitlerite barbarian furious with Russian sponsors for not sufficiently arming his SS thugs:

 

[cupid_stunt]

He's certainly not a happy chappy.

 

[LDC]

High Lord Commander in Chief of drama queens.

 

[tim]

I'd have thought private military companies would be responsible for supplying their own ammunition

Yes, GBNews have been moaning about the BBC wanting to charge them to use their Coronation camera feeds. These people want to get the benefits of going alone but want the state to support them when stuff gets difficult. Just like anything Richard Branson gets involved with too.

 

[mojo pixy]

Yes, GBNews have been moaning about the BBC wanting to charge them to use their Coronation camera feeds. These people want to get the benefits of going alone but want the state to support them when stuff gets difficult. Just like anything Richard Branson gets involved with too.

Boils my piss tbh, we saw it during the pandemic - millions of self-employed who exploit every tax loophole there is (not to mention the blatant under-reporting of income and simple evasion) but happy to claim the furlough cash and other state support in full. And we wonder why we're fucked as a nation.

 

[The39thStep]

I'm nuancing my initial view of the world's shittest drone attack.

I still don't think it's an official Ukrainian attack - but I'm also not convinced it's an official Ru government false-flag.

I think that one of the things we fail to grasp is how decentralised some elements of the Ukrainian defence system (network? System of systems? Society?) is, and that not all of it is in Ukraine, or under the direct, immediate control or direction of the Ukrainian government - and also how Byzantine the military/security apparatus of the Russian state/polity is - so, imv, it's quite possible that this is a ploy by one element within the Russian element, without reference to the other parts, and aimed far more at securing/promoting their interests than in anything to do with the war of Ukraine.

It's interesting to see that the BBC team in Moscow is reported heavy GPS jamming in Moscow - which means either someone is genuinely scared of more drone attacks, or that they want to look like it - but of course, this also eats into the Russia as a Great Power narrative.

I think it's unwise to see Putin as Stalin 2.0, and more as the guy not who weilds and uses absolute terror, but as the guy who is successfully (so far) spinning the half a dozen plus plates of the competing power structures that dominate the Russian polity.

The Wagner thing in Bakhmut is, I think, a symptom of this - I think it's illustrative that firstly Prigozhin isn't (that) scared to publicly attack the Russian MOD, but also that the Ru MOD is happy to throw Wagner to the Ukr wolves and to get chewed up for lack of ammunition and support fires. They are competing military powers, and it makes sense for them to try and reduce the strength of the other.

Some good points here. I think the impact of the 'mixed economy' of military providers and participants on both sides which gives a degree of autonomy ( and liability) is worthy of further exploration and also has potential consequences for peacetime. I also agree with your view on Putin which is far more credible than the lazy stereotype of Stalin 2/mad dictator of a unified fascist state labelling. II'm not sure which audience Prigozhin is addressing, psyops for Ukraine or psyops for sections of the Russian oligarchs ? Perhaps both.

 

[Dogsauce]

. II'm not sure which audience Prigozhin is addressing, psyops for Ukraine or psyops for sections of the Russian oligarchs ? Perhaps both.

he also has political ambitions, so playing the anti-elitist card is likely part of this, criticising generals and their offspring making YouTube videos while other people’s sons die in the mud. I think he also knows the war is a failure and by criticising those in charge he gets to distance himself from what went wrong, doesn’t have any responsibility for it.

 

[The39thStep]

he also has political ambitions, so playing the anti-elitist card is likely part of this, criticising generals and their offspring making YouTube videos while other people’s sons die in the mud. I think he also knows the war is a failure and by criticising those in charge he gets to distance himself from what went wrong, doesn’t have any responsibility for it.

Lots of juggling. Lots of trash talking videos. Kadyrov has one out saying t if Wagner leaves Bakhmut, then Kadyrov's military would enter Bakhmut instead. Meanwhile, Prigozhin is now calling Bakhmut, Wagnerland.

 

[The39thStep]

Weird story but one that illustrates the potential for non-sanctioned ( or possibly sanctioned but when things go wrong not stationed) action against Russia.

Roman Chervinsky is a Ukrainian Special Forces officer, who's now in custody facing trial. . According to Ukrainian SBU, he and other soldiers decided to conduct an unauthorized operation to hijack a Russian attack jet,. This led to Russia identifying a Ukraine airbase, launching a missile attack and the death of at least one person ( 3 dead is mentioned in another report)and 17 injured and destruction of UA equipment.

SBU head: Special Forces officer Chervinsky, whose actions led to shelling of Kanatove airfield, notified of suspicion

Officer of the Special Forces Roman Chervinsky, who is hiding from the investigation, is a de facto deserter, has been notified of suspicion of abuse of authority and will not escape responsibility, Head of the State Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) Vasyl Maliuk said.

en.interfax.com.ua

 

[LDC]

I'm nuancing my initial view of the world's shittest drone attack.

I still don't think it's an official Ukrainian attack - but I'm also not convinced it's an official Ru government false-flag.

I think that one of the things we fail to grasp is how decentralised some elements of the Ukrainian defence system (network? System of systems? Society?) is, and that not all of it is in Ukraine, or under the direct, immediate control or direction of the Ukrainian government - and also how Byzantine the military/security apparatus of the Russian state/polity is - so, imv, it's quite possible that this is a ploy by one element within the Russian element, without reference to the other parts, and aimed far more at securing/promoting their interests than in anything to do with the war of Ukraine.

It's interesting to see that the BBC team in Moscow is reported heavy GPS jamming in Moscow - which means either someone is genuinely scared of more drone attacks, or that they want to look like it - but of course, this also eats into the Russia as a Great Power narrative.

I think it's unwise to see Putin as Stalin 2.0, and more as the guy not who weilds and uses absolute terror, but as the guy who is successfully (so far) spinning the half a dozen plus plates of the competing power structures that dominate the Russian polity.

The Wagner thing in Bakhmut is, I think, a symptom of this - I think it's illustrative that firstly Prigozhin isn't (that) scared to publicly attack the Russian MOD, but also that the Ru MOD is happy to throw Wagner to the Ukr wolves and to get chewed up for lack of ammunition and support fires. They are competing military powers, and it makes sense for them to try and reduce the strength of the other.

Yeah I also now think it's less likely to be an 'official' strike by the Ukrainian State or a false flag by the Russian one. I'd still say the least likely is some official Ukrainian State element tbh.

If I was a betting person I'd put money on it being some internal grouping within Russia, either a small rogue element of the Russian State or similar, or an dissenting internal political group. Looks more like a militarized amateur drone?

 

[The39thStep]

Yeah I also now think it's less likely to be an 'official' strike by the Ukrainian State or a false flag by the Russian one. I'd still say the least likely is some official Ukrainian State element tbh.

If I was a betting person I'd put money on it being some internal grouping within Russia, either a small rogue element of the Russian State or similar, or an dissenting internal political group. Looks more like a militarized amateur drone?

Is there any reason why you are not a betting person ?

 

[LDC]

Is there any reason why you are not a betting person ?

Because I'd lose more than I win? (And my dad had a terrible gambling addiction...).

 

[TopCat]

No point back peddling. Everyone can see your sneery condescending cuntish behaviour and draw their own conclusions.

Go fuck your self you right wing pussy.

 

[LDC]

Bit of misogyny from the person who cheered on the execution of Ukrainian prisoners of war last year the brave man.

 

[TopCat]

Bit of misogyny from the person who cheered on the execution of Ukrainian prisoners of war last year the brave man.

Yeah Azov fascists getting killed. I weep no tears for them. You however lionise them. Your politics is fucked.

 

[TopCat]

As for misogyny how many times have arses like you called me a cunt on this very thread? Hypocrite wanker

 

[LDC]

Yeah Azov fascists getting killed. I weep no tears for them. You however lionise them. Your politics is fucked.

You refuse to listen to people who say they weren't and it's not that simple, including reliable Ukrainian leftists. Add racism to your list of lovely attributes.

 

[TopCat]

You refuse to listen to people who say they weren't and it's not that simple, including reliable Ukrainian leftists. Add racism to your list of lovely attributes.

You just talk shit. Have you got your own Azov badge yet?

 

[LDC]

Not continuing with this weird nonsense, thread is too important to fill it full of this. Suggest you do the same.

 

[TopCat]

Not continuing with this weird nonsense, thread is too important to fill it full of this. Suggest you do the same.

No, I encouraged you and others to stop diverting the thread with personal attacks and if anything you doubled down.
So go fuck yourself you hypocritical turncoat cunt.

 

[The39thStep]

Surely there are better ways for posters to conduct themselves on this thread ?

 

[strung out]

Surely there are better ways for posters to conduct themselves on this thread ?

I believe TopCat was provoked by other posters expanding their sphere of influence right up to his inbox. His legitimate security concerns must be respected.

 

[The39thStep]

I believe TopCat was provoked by other posters expanding their sphere of influence right up to his inbox. His legitimate security concerns must be respected.

Sad state of affairs though tbh

 

[TopCat]

Themes I have touched on (and recieved abuse for) have generally been:

Propaganda and posters susceptibility to the same

The actions of NATO in provoking the conflict

The history of proud nazis in the Ukrainian forces

The motivations of the EU in encouraging more fighting no discussions

The mind set of self proclaimed revolutionaries in supporting the actions of the west

The farce surrounding the Minsk agreements

The endless commentary of western orgs as to what’s happening (compared to a total lack of the same in western military adventures)

But rarely have any points been addressed. It’s just been a litany of abuse.

I offered to bury to sweary hatchet but no the abuse keeps coming.

 

[a_chap]

Oh, do shut up. For goodness sake.

 

[TopCat]

Oh, do shut up. For goodness sake.

Why should I shut up? Self entitled idiot.

 

[a_chap]

Why should I shut up?

Signed
Self entitled idiot.

I fixed that for you.

And to answer you question, because you're really, really boring.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Themes I have touched on (and recieved abuse for) have generally been:

Propaganda and posters susceptibility to the same

The actions of NATO in provoking the conflict

The history of proud nazis in the Ukrainian forces

The motivations of the EU in encouraging more fighting no discussions

The mind set of self proclaimed revolutionaries in supporting the actions of the west

The farce surrounding the Minsk agreements

The endless commentary of western orgs as to what’s happening (compared to a total lack of the same in western military adventures)

But rarely have any points been addressed. It’s just been a litany of abuse.

I offered to bury to sweary hatchet but no the abuse keeps coming.

Fuck sakes, you seem massively agitated against fascists and some of the Ukrainian army may well have been of that ilk, great. Putin is a fucking carbon copy of Hitler ffs, any support of anything other than the total failure of his invasion is supporting fascism, end of.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Can we stop making this thread the TopCat and Company show


It's a crap show, he's not going to change his mind, insulting each others not going to improve anything and reading the dog pile back and forth is just boring.

Use the ignore button and TC that goes for you to. You don't want to see you don't have to.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Can we stop making this thread the TopCat and Company show

NATO started it.