Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[Riklet]

So ignore the Nazi Azov connections. Ignore the rampant corruption. Ignore the nationalism.
Well if it doesn’t bother Ukrainian supporters just say so.

The irony is the war has probably made a lot of those things better. Ok maybe not the nationalism... ban January Christmas and Tolstoy lolololol.

Corruption in Ukraine especially, one of the most corrupt countries in the world.
See the news today. Top officials being fired. Theyre under Western scrunity now. German NATO audit wankers. People want to know where the money has gone. And the nazis are bad PR especially if they want to insist the Russians are Nazis.

None of those issues should be ignored but none of them are unique to Ukraine and none of them would stop me backing their government currently or supporting their people.

 

[The39thStep]

weird turn for the thread, anarchists defensively demanding evidence corrupt dictatorial imperial state is corrupt

Typical of westsplaining anarchists tbh

 

[TopCat]

This. I think it's generally appreciated that Ukraine is prone to corruption, much more so that it's neighbours, with one very obvious exception.

I think it may just be that it's topic people have limited interesting in engaging with when they perceive it as coming from a perspective of pro-Russia or artificial balance.

I was quoting the Guardian. Hardly pro Russia unless you are called Norman Tebbit

 

[Raheem]

I was quoting the Guardian. Hardly pro Russia unless you are called Norman Tebbit

It doesn't really matter what you're quoting if you're perceived to be tendentious in what you find worth sharing.

 

[Spymaster]

I was quoting the Guardian. Hardly pro Russia unless you are called Norman Tebbit

It's not what you're quoting. It's the fact that you're quoting it!

 

[emanymton]

It's not what you're quoting. It's the fact that you're quoting it!

I'm not reading his posts, but is anyone denying it? I don't see the point of it. It's okay for Russia to bomb Ukraine as it has some corruption. We know Ukraine is corrupt. But so what?

 

[teqniq]

Complete devastation:

 

[The39thStep]

The irony is the war has probably made a lot of those things better. Ok maybe not the nationalism... ban January Christmas and Tolstoy lolololol.

Corruption in Ukraine especially, one of the most corrupt countries in the world.
See the news today. Top officials being fired. Theyre under Western scrunity now. German NATO audit wankers. People want to know where the money has gone. And the nazis are bad PR especially if they want to insist the Russians are Nazis.

None of those issues should be ignored but none of them are unique to Ukraine and none of them would stop me backing their government currently or supporting their people.

I think the point that you make regarding Western 'scrutiny' ( although there may be a better term) is an interesting one imo . There does seem to be a media management strategy regarding the far right, the EU has insisted on international representation in Ukraine's courts, has made some requirements about corruption/oligarchs as part of the conditions for EU entry, and there was of course the American corrective intervention into Ukraine's claim about the missile that landed in Poland.

Whether or not these make anything better on the ground is of course quite debatable but we can be hopeful. Of course, there has not been any external scrutiny of issues like the labour restrictions etc as those in themselves will assist Western investment in Ukraine post war.

There also may be more to the resignations and inquiries than just corruption, it is possible that there are rifts or at least tensions within the Zelensky regime , which tbh would be natural in a government that faces such tough challenges and a degree of external 'scrutiny'.

 

[kebabking]

I'm not reading his posts, but is anyone denying it? I don't see the point of it. It's okay for Russia to bomb Ukraine as it has some corruption. We know Ukraine is corrupt. But so what?

It's not just the corruption that forces Russia to audit the the place with a Tank Army and genocide, it's those Anglo-Saxon naval bases that Hengist and Horsa were preparing to build...

 

[Spymaster]

It's not just the corruption that forces Russia to audit the the place with a Tank Army and genocide, it's those Anglo-Saxon naval bases that Hengist and Horsa were preparing to build...

View attachment 360714

WTF is he on about?

 

[teqniq]

And that's why they have to raze everything to the ground is it?

 

[Raheem]

It's not just the corruption that forces Russia to audit the the place with a Tank Army and genocide, it's those Anglo-Saxon naval bases that Hengist and Horsa were preparing to build...

View attachment 360714

To much if the world, "Anglo-Saxon" means British and American.

 

[Dystopiary]

To much if the world, "Anglo-Saxon" means British and American.

Even though the term rules out much of both.

 

[kebabking]

And that's why they have to raze everything to the ground is it?

Dude, Heinz Guderian was an *accountant *...

 

[Raheem]

Even though the term rules out much of both.

Sure, but then again a lot of modern terms for people who live in a certain place have an outdated ethnically-specific etymology.

 

[A380]

It's not just the corruption that forces Russia to audit the the place with a Tank Army and genocide, it's those Anglo-Saxon naval bases that Hengist and Horsa were preparing to build...

View attachment 360714

Are we building longships again like when Alfred was king?

Cool.

 

[RainbowTown]

Ukraine war: British pair killed trying 'humanitarian evacuation'

Chris Parry and Andrew Bagshaw were killed in Soledar, eastern Ukraine, the Parry family says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Sad, but not entirely unexpected. RIP.

 

[Supine]

Post deleted. Wrong thread!

 

[Nylock]

Looks like Germany has bowed to pressure:

Germany to send Ukraine Leopard II

...so currently Ukraine is set to receive two Leopard companies (14x each from Germany & Poland) and a company of Challenger II from the UK... Not sure what difference 42 tanks can make overall but maybe they can help...?

 

[Raheem]

Looks like Germany has bowed to pressure:

Germany to send Ukraine Leopard II

...so currently Ukraine is set to receive two Leopard companies (14x each from Germany & Poland) and a company of Challenger II from the UK... Not sure what difference 42 tanks can make overall but maybe they can help...?

Ukraine have claimed to need 300, but idk what their definition of "need" is.

 

[strung out]

Looks like Germany has bowed to pressure:

Germany to send Ukraine Leopard II

...so currently Ukraine is set to receive two Leopard companies (14x each from Germany & Poland) and a company of Challenger II from the UK... Not sure what difference 42 tanks can make overall but maybe they can help...?

They'll receive more from other Leopard operators now, I'm sure.

Netherlands are pledging their 18 - Denmark, Norway, Spain Finland and Portugal have also got plenty between them

 

[agricola]

The irony is the war has probably made a lot of those things better. Ok maybe not the nationalism... ban January Christmas and Tolstoy lolololol.

Corruption in Ukraine especially, one of the most corrupt countries in the world.
See the news today. Top officials being fired. Theyre under Western scrunity now. German NATO audit wankers. People want to know where the money has gone. And the nazis are bad PR especially if they want to insist the Russians are Nazis.

None of those issues should be ignored but none of them are unique to Ukraine and none of them would stop me backing their government currently or supporting their people.

TBF nothing gets rid of corruption like getting a big chunk of the population trained in the use of arms and long experience of fighting together against an enemy. If the country survives this, the big dividing line in their politics (and economy / business probably) for the next generation is going to be (especially for men) between those who stayed and fought and those who did neither. I am not sure where many oligarchs fit in such a space, or what opportunities for the sort of graft they are used to there will be afterwards.

 

[kebabking]

There's significant gossip that the US will announce this week that they are donating 30-50 M1A2 Abrams tanks.

The Leopard 'coalition' is the big mover here - there's a group of Leo2 users who have semi-publicly said they'll (collectively) send somewhere in the 150-250 range.

Timing is going to be the crunch point - when they get into Ukr hands, and when Ukr is ready to use them. Training, logistics, support etc... Early spring would be great, mid-spring would be okay, late spring is getting late, because the Russians will be mounting their own offensives by then....

 

[TopCat]

It's being addressed. Zelenskiy ramps up anti-corruption drive as 15 Ukrainian officials exit

 

[xenon]

'A year after the invasion, Ukraine is riddled with Russian collaborators and sympathizers.' ​

Think they may be over egging the pudding however if the issues they outline exist even on a smaller scale in these areas what on earth is their strategy going to be regarding Ukrainians who have been living in the areas occupied by Russia since 2014 ? Surely there's got to be some hearts and minds stuff rather than just the threat of mass arrests?

Russia’s Fifth Column in Ukraine Is Alive and Well

A year after the invasion, Ukraine is riddled with Russian collaborators and sympathizers.

foreignpolicy.com

We had some Ukrainian guests at Christmas dinner. One of their mothers has started believing the Russian propaganda. She is still back in East Ukraine. very easy to understand why that might be the case. keeping your head down, going along with it out of fear etc.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Thing is dude, you've set yourself up on this thread as a pro-Russian commentator when to the vast majority of the rest of us, Russia are patently the massive cunts in all this. If someone else had posted about Ukrainian military corruption it would have got a fairer hearing but because it was you it's just more of the same old bollocks.

Welcome to my world

 

[xenon]

Any merit using challenger one? Are too old to outclassed to be significantly useful now?

Britain is sending the Ukrainians the wrong tanks

archived 16 Jan 2023 19:36:10 UTC

archive.ph

 

[AmateurAgitator]

Typical of westsplaining anarchists tbh

What exactly is your politics then? You give off leninist vibes.

 

[Chz]

Any merit using challenger one? Are too old to outclassed to be significantly useful now?

Britain is sending the Ukrainians the wrong tanks

archived 16 Jan 2023 19:36:10 UTC

archive.ph

Well, a few things. One, they're not on lease or anything, we sold them to Jordan. The Brits have no say in the matter. Two, I'd argue that having current optics and electronics is far, far more important than firepower and armour. The latter two are probably fine, but the former not so much on them. Third, no-ones really paid attention to how the Jordanians have treated them. So in addition to needing an updated sensor suite, christ only knows the state of them after 20 years in a desert environment they were never designed for.

I'm sure the basic chassis/gun combo is fine. The Ukrainians would have been happy to have Leopard Is, if any were up to date and still around, and a Chally is vastly superior to that.

 

[DownwardDog]

This thread is fucking bollocks really and not worth bothering with now that we don't have CasuallyRed. This would have been his finest hour.