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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

Do any of you gung ho lot believe the Russians are shelling the nuclear plant that is controlled by their troops? I mean propaganda is one thing but to assert this just undermines credibility.

I believe the Russians are bombing areas of infrastructure supplying power to the rest of the Ukraine and parking artillery in areas of dubious safety to ensure that any counter-battery fire by Ukraine has to risk hitting it, yes.


Now imagine if the Russians weren't there, would the Ukrainians be firing rounds near the nuclear plant?
 
This^^ the only way sealion made sense would have to assumed the UK would have folded straight away. But that is to look at it from a 21st century perspective where the UK is basically Britain and the six counties. In the 4Os it was tge Empire too. It’s doubtful the Royal Navy would have folded either given its size. So quite easy to imagine a German army stranded in the South East being cut up by half a million Indians armed with ‘Canadian’ equipment coming down from ships in Liverpool … I might write a book…

Been done but the WW2 genre is a greedy maw, never sated.
 
I believe the Russians are bombing areas of infrastructure supplying power to the rest of the Ukraine and parking artillery in areas of dubious safety to ensure that any counter-battery fire by Ukraine has to risk hitting it, yes.


Now imagine if the Russians weren't there, would the Ukrainians be firing rounds near the nuclear plant?
The tautology is gobsmaking.
 
I think if the Germans had invaded the UK they would have succeeded in subjugating the populace. However they turned right and attacked the USSR and fucked up. We still owe a debt imo.
Who do we owe the debt to? Stalin and his chums, who sided with Germany at the start? Or the people of the USSR, which no longer exists? Or the people of Belarus, who suffered the worst during WW2 and who are now ruled by a vicious dictator? Or the people of Ukraine, who suffered the worse during WW2 after Belarus and who are now suffering under Putin? Or Putin?
If we do owe a debt now, why?
 
AP reporter sacked for Polish missile strike claims that sparked ‘WW3’ frenzy - The Times (archived)

Inaccurate news report claimed Russian missiles had strayed into a Nato member state (...)

The story attributed the information to a single source, despite the wire service’s own guidelines that it “requires more than one source when sourcing is anonymous”.

Looks like it was in The Daily Beast first

AP Fires Reporter Behind Retracted ‘Russian Missiles’ Story - (archived)
 
Yesterday was the 9th anniversary of the revolution of the revolution of freedom and dignity, in which the Maidan movement made the pro-Putin president Yanukovych flee to Russia. The war started just days later.
 
Yesterday was the 9th anniversary of the revolution of the revolution of freedom and dignity, in which the Maidan movement made the pro-Putin president Yanukovych flee to Russia. The war started just days later.
Has the Maidan massacre trial finished yet or has the war put a stop to proceedings ?
 
Has the Maidan massacre trial finished yet or has the war put a stop to proceedings ?


I didn't know there was a trial until now. According to this it's ongoing and right sector are accused of blue on blue shootings.

Edit: were you asking a loaded question? The Canadian academic on twitter does seem to be rehashing Putin's version of events. And from a quick look, the main search hits for any trial relate to him. Were you therefore asking in a sly way, as he does, why no punishment on the shooters until now? If so, my response would be that Berkut disbanded, and the country was preoccupied with war and brutal partitioning, not to mention the level of corruption and buy offs
 
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I didn't know there was a trial until now. According to this it's ongoing and right sector are accused of blue on blue shootings.

Edit: were you asking a loaded question? The Canadian academic on twitter does seem to be rehashing Putin's version of events. And from a quick look, the main search hits for any trial relate to him. Were you therefore asking in a sly way, as he does, why no punishment on the shooters until now? If so, my response would be that Berkut disbanded, and the country was preoccupied with war and brutal partitioning, not to mention the level of corruption and buy offs

Last time I reply to any of your posts pal.
 
Last time I reply to any of your posts pal.
Ok, so just mysteriously leave it at. I'm gonna go with my hunch and say Berkut did the shooting, that the tweet are nonsense which you had an interest in spreading. Feel free to correct me if you've got a different POV.
 
Ok, so just mysteriously leave it at. I'm gonna go with my hunch and say Berkut did the shooting, that the tweet are nonsense which you had an interest in spreading. Feel free to correct me if you've got a different POV.
I wouldn't waste too much energy on that one. Straight answers are to him what sharpened stakes are to vampires. It's all about the cant.
 
Who do we owe the debt to? Stalin and his chums, who sided with Germany at the start? Or the people of the USSR, which no longer exists? Or the people of Belarus, who suffered the worst during WW2 and who are now ruled by a vicious dictator? Or the people of Ukraine, who suffered the worse during WW2 after Belarus and who are now suffering under Putin? Or Putin?
If we do owe a debt now, why?
Yeah you're not going to get any straight answers here, any more than I did...
So why didn't Putin / Russia (right now I can't see any clear difference) start negotiations years ago around spheres of influence, NATO expansion, "buffer states", neighbours joining the EU, etc etc all the stuff we're saying "contributed" to this war? I mean, explicitly and publicly and in full view like a statesperson. Why solve the problem by military means? Was there really no other way for him to address these "concerns"?

Why does Ukraine have to negotiate now, not to lose bits of itself, when Russia wouldn't negotiate before to maintain its sphere of influence / check NATO expansion? Why has Putin's state been murdering dissidents, threatening neighbours and promoting conspiracism for years?

There's a massive double standard here, where Russia is being treated as if it's a nation without agency, so weak it had no choice but to lash out. While other states have to give up bits, Russia gets to just take them. Fine, if we want to live with that, personally it's unlikely to affect me me me, but why would anyone argue that this state is behaving in any way legitimately? If the USA did the same in Mexico, or if/when China did/does the same in Taiwan or Kashmir, I can't imagine the same defence springing up from the UK left. Not at all.
That's not how the one-up-manship game works.
 
Ok, so just mysteriously leave it at. I'm gonna go with my hunch and say Berkut did the shooting, that the tweet are nonsense which you had an interest in spreading. Feel free to correct me if you've got a different POV.
Your 'hunch' is utterly meaningless and just a projection of your own bias. Please don't post up any more of your 'hunches' as they're a total waste of time.
 
Your 'hunch' is utterly meaningless and just a projection of your own bias. Please don't post up any more of your 'hunches' as they're a total waste of time.
39th step asked about a trial. If anyone else is able to answer that question, they should go ahead. But the question was in the same genre of 'did you know Zelensky is Rothschild's cousin?"... I took the bait.
 
More strikes on infrastructure today, power and water out in Kyiv.

This is an example of the consequences of this action.
In Odesa's children hospital, a generator can only work for 10 hours. Doctors prepare Ambu bags. This is such a device to manually pump the lungs. There are children in the hospital who are on ventilators.
 
As Moldova has also suffered blackouts today as a result of the infrastructure strikes, I'm going to assume that they are less than pleased with the Kremlin / RF's MoD ...
Having said that, the Ukrainians claim to have shot down 51 of 70 incoming Kaliber cruise missiles today [23rd November 2022]


a couple more items from the Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com coverage ...

Neither was the European Parliament, apparently


so ...
Agence France-Presse: European Parliament is under cyberattack after declaring Russia a "state sponsor of terrorism"
 
AIUI, Moldova have summoned the Russian Ambassodor to explain himself. I suspect he'll probably snigger and go "Oh, they were Ukrainian". They have a word for it: враньё ("vranyo"). Built-in lying.

ETA: TBF, we have a phrase for it, too. "Ministerial statement".
 
As Moldova has also suffered blackouts today as a result of the infrastructure strikes, I'm going to assume that they are less than pleased with the Kremlin / RF's MoD ...
Having said that, the Ukrainians claim to have shot down 51 of 70 incoming Kaliber cruise missiles today [23rd November 2022]


a couple more items from the Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com coverage ...

Neither was the European Parliament, apparently


so ...
Agence France-Presse: European Parliament is under cyberattack after declaring Russia a "state sponsor of terrorism"

I can't help thinking that naming their cruise missiles after the non-alcoholic equivalent of red barrel rather speaks to their quality
 
For some reason Boris Johnson was invited to the anniversary of CNN Portugal where he gave an interviews or interviews on a number of subjects including Ukraine and Brexit .Obviously the interviews reveal his crucial and successful role in everything but in particular he managed to inform viewers that in regarding Ukraine, Germany thought Ukraine would collapse and that it would be better if it was all over quickly ,France were 'in denial' after Macron spoke to Putin and Italy didn't want any part in supplying either weapons or sanctions .
 
Me and some friends here in Portugal have collected for heaters and generators for Ukraine . I don't know if there are similar schemes in the UK ?

This short thread describes what it is like living under the effects of no or limited electricity

 
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