Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[The39thStep]

I think that's a question for the Ukrainians, not us. It is their country after all. As long as they're willing to carry on fighting, we should carry on arming them. (BTW. so pleased that people like you weren't around in 1940. Well, actually there were, but they were in internment camps thankfully!)

Apart from around 750 UK fascists, and in Northern Ireland IRA members, those in internment camps in 1940 were 'aliens' from Italy , German, Czech, , Belgium and Holland . These included those fleeing the war, anti fascists as well as sympathisers and members of nazi fascist organisations. Thousands were sent to Canada to be interned and in 1940 the Arandora Star carrying internees was torpedoed and sunk to the west of Ireland.

Despite the fact that the UK is not at war, and in any case maomao wouldnt have fitted the criteria for internment in 1940, I wouldn't want this information to unnecessarily dampen your obvious enthusiasm for the principle of internment for those posting up views that you disagree with on an internet board.

 

[TopCat]

Did it by video link

Weird to have no press report on what he is wanting.

 

[TopCat]

No need, the Ukrainians are doing a perfectly good job with our assistance. And when Russia has lost this war no doubt you'll still be on this thread demanding the Ukrainians hand over half their country for 'peace'.

When have I demanded that? Your making it up.

 

[Pickman's model]

There's thousands of brave men and women out there fighting to defend and liberate their country from the most sinister and dangerous threat Europe has faced in generations and I think we should support them. (I also think that's our national interest as well.) Perhaps that constitutes 'madness' in your world, in which case I'm a total nutter!

The most sinister and dangerous threat Europe has faced in generations is the lackadaisical approach European politicians are taking to climate change

 

[TopCat]

I wondered how long it would take before cries of traitor rang out. Calling for internment I thought would take longer but hey.

 

[Chz]

these ukranians?

How fickle of them, considering that not long ago 98% of them voted to join Russia. </sarcasm>

 

[A380]

The most sinister and dangerous threat The world has faced in generations is the lackadaisical approach politicians are taking to climate change

FTFY

 

[Sue]

Apart from around 750 UK fascists, and in Northern Ireland IRA members, those in internment camps in 1940 were 'aliens' from Italy , German, Czech, , Belgium and Holland . These included those fleeing the war, anti fascists as well as sympathisers and members of nazi fascist organisations. Thousands were sent to Canada to be interned and in 1940 the Arandora Star carrying internees was torpedoed and sunk to the west of Ireland.

My great grandmother was interned (Italian, had been here for 30 years, hadn't been naturalised because that cost money and she was a widow with a large family to raise). Because an illiterate woman in her 60s was obviously a massive threat to national security.

 

[The39thStep]

Weird to have no press report on what he is wanting.

I watched it on CNN , however, it wasn't a peace plan as such more an attempt to get G20 ( he called it G19 as he doesn't think Russia should be in it) to approve a position . He compared Russian departure from Kherson to D-Day, said Ukraine has always been a leader in peacekeeping efforts, there could be no Minsk 3 as the Russians cant be trusted and then went on to make 10 proposals concerning the following :

1. Radiation and nuclear safety ( this was about theZaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant)
2. safe food ( expand the grain export initiative to other ports )
3. energy security ( Russia should stop bombing Ukrainian energy generation and water and heat supply facilities.)
4. Release of prisoners and deportees ( said that Ukraine isn't being supported enough by International Committee of the Red Cross)
5. Implementation of the UN Charter ( Russia must reaffirm the territorial integrity of Ukraine)
6. Withdrawal of Russian troops and cessation of hostilities
7. Justice ( Special Tribunal regarding the crime of Russia’s aggression against Ukraine and the creation of an international mechanism to compensate for all the damages )
8. Ecocide and the protection of the environment ( assess the environmental damage of war and pay for it )
9. escalation prevention ( everyone should sign up to the Kyiv Security Compact that Ukraine have drafted)
10. Confirmation of the end of the war (he said none of the steps above can take long. A month for one step at the most. For some steps, a couple of days are enough)

CNN described the list as 'maximalist and unrealistic.

 

[kebabking]

My great grandmother was interned (Italian, had been here for 30 years, hadn't been naturalised because that cost money and she was a widow with a large family to raise). Because an illiterate woman in her 60s was obviously a massive threat to national security.

Amusingly (!!) at the same time MI5 decided that another woman, born in Germany, well educated, multi-lungual, and well travelled could not be a threat to national security because she spent so much time baking cakes and looking after her children in a little village in Oxfordshire.

She had a massive radio station in the back garden, was a Colonel in the Soviet Army's GRU, was the handler of Klaus Fuchs - the most important of the atomic spies - and had known a then senior MI5 officer called Roger Hollis while they had both been living in Shanghai and she had been publicly helping to run the Communist Internationals' bookshop, among other things...

It is genuinely impressive that an organisation can be both so competent as to close down the German Abwehrs intelligence gathering efforts in short shrift, and so incompetent at the same time.

 

[The39thStep]

My great grandmother was interned (Italian, had been here for 30 years, hadn't been naturalised because that cost money and she was a widow with a large family to raise). Because an illiterate woman in her 60s was obviously a massive threat to national security.

In 1940 there were more internees, 27000 , than prisoners of war , less than 300, in the UK. This was due to the fact that most pows were shipped to Canada . (Edited from ‘shipped to Germany ‘)

There's an interesting book called Collar The Lot by Peter Gillman about this issue . The title refers to the phrase Churchill allegedly used when ordering the mass arrests.

​

 

[belboid]

So it could have been a Ukrainian missile that hit Poland. Which still seems a good reason to give them more anti air weapons. So they have ones that aren't shit.

If only the same logic were applied to Palestine

 

[Sue]

In 1940 there were more internees, 27000 , than prisoners of war , less than 300, in the UK. This was due to the fact that most pows were shipped to Germany .

There's an interesting book called Collar The Lot by Peter Gillman about this issue . The title refers to the phrase Churchill allegedly used when ordering the mass arrests.

​

Thanks, will try and get hold of a copy. I found out at my great aunt's funeral a few years ago that she started a campaign to get her mother released from internment (on health grounds I think) and basically made a massive nuisance of herself until it happened. (She was in the Land Army at the time.) So my GGM wasn't interned for as long as many people.

 

[Humberto]

Quoted for posterity. You keep saying you know shouldn’t post when you’re pissed. And yet you keep doing it.

'You know you' presumably?

 

[Ĝasper]

About Poland. Imo the tough talk on NATO from the likes of Biden is being exposed as bravado. Putin will be taking note and calculating how much he can get away with.

Before anyone calls for me to be interred, this is just my interpretation, and I'm not saying that the nato powers should necessarily be doing anything differ atm.

 

[teqniq]

Yep, US seem to think it was a Ukrainian air defence missile rather than Russian.

Article here:

Poland: Russian-made missile fell on our country, killing 2

WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Poland said early Wednesday that a Russian-made missile fell in the country’s east, killing two people, though U.S. President Joe Biden said it was “unlikely” it was fired from Russia.

apnews.com

 

[kebabking]

About Poland. Imo the tough talk on NATO from the likes of Biden is being exposed as bravado. Putin will be taking note and calculating how much he can get away with.

Before anyone calls for me to be interred, this is just my interpretation, and I'm not saying that the nato powers should necessarily be doing anything differ atm.

What is it you mean?

 

[Kaka Tim]

About Poland. Imo the tough talk on NATO from the likes of Biden is being exposed as bravado. Putin will be taking note and calculating how much he can get away with.

Before anyone calls for me to be interred, this is just my interpretation, and I'm not saying that the nato powers should necessarily be doing anything differ atm.

what tough talk has been exposed?

 

[frogwoman]

Biden/NATO is desperately trying to avoid escalation it seems to me.

 

[Ĝasper]

what tough talk has been exposed?

This is the stuff he was coming out with

Joe Biden warns tyrant Putin 'every inch' of NATO territory will be defended

Russian President Vladimir Putin shocked the world on Friday by announcing the the biggest annexation in Europe since World War 2 with four regions of Ukraine declared as Russian

www.google.com

"we will defend every inch"

NATO’s collective defense is ‘sacred obligation’: US president

Joe Biden reiterates commitment to military alliance ahead of NATO leaders’ summit - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

"article 5 is a sacred commitment"

 

[frogwoman]

He's talking about a deliberate attack not an accident tho.

 

[frogwoman]

Remember Turkey shot a Russian plane down a couple years ago in Syria and nothing happened over that. Debatable how accidental that was but escalation wasn't in either sides' interest at the time

 

[TopCat]

Remember Turkey shot a Russian plane down a couple years ago in Syria and nothing happened over that. Debatable how accidental that was but escalation wasn't in either sides' interest at the time

I recollect the US shooting down an Iranian airliner killing all on board.

 

[kebabking]

This is the stuff he was coming out with

Joe Biden warns tyrant Putin 'every inch' of NATO territory will be defended

Russian President Vladimir Putin shocked the world on Friday by announcing the the biggest annexation in Europe since World War 2 with four regions of Ukraine declared as Russian

www.google.com

"we will defend every inch"

NATO’s collective defense is ‘sacred obligation’: US president

Joe Biden reiterates commitment to military alliance ahead of NATO leaders’ summit - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

"article 5 is a sacred commitment"

So you think NATO should attack Russia in retribution for an accident with a Ukrainian missile?

I mean, it's an opinion...

 

[Pickman's model]

So you think NATO should attack Russia in retribution for an accident with a Ukrainian missile?

I mean, it's an opinion...

Gasper likes to think outside the box

 

[Ĝasper]

He's talking about a deliberate attack not an accident tho.

If Putin were going to attack Poland or any other NATO country, he wouldn't just go straight in and bomb Warsaw, just as he didnt go straight in and bomb Kyiv - he annxed the Crimea and the Donbass - except those acts were "accidents" too - "an over enthusiastic motorcycle gang seized Crimea, we never gave the order", "the Donbass voted to secede, they are scared of nazis from the west of Ukraine" - thats how it was billed.

Maybe this was a genuine accident in Poland though. Maybe it was a Ukrainian missile. Who knows. Then again, maybe next time it will be 6 missiles in Lithuania, ("wooopsie!") rather than 2 in Poland.

 

[TopCat]

So you think NATO should attack Russia in retribution for an accident with a Ukrainian missile?

I mean, it's an opinion...

Well the US attacked Iraq after the attack on 9/11 by mainly Saudi’s.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well the US attacked Iraq after the attack on 7/11 by mainly Saudi’s.

9/11. 7/11 was a chain of shops

 

[kebabking]

Well the US attacked Iraq after the attack on 9/11 by mainly Saudi’s.

Does that mean you think the US did the right thing, or did the wrong thing?

Sorry, it's just really hard to keep up with your independent thinking/Crack habit....

 

[Pickman's model]

Tbh this unfortunate missile strike highlights how eager some posters are to jump to conclusions based on nothing more than their own preconceptions and without a shred of evidence.