Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I was asking if there was any evidence that was happening as it's a serious accusation. The word of mouth from someone there that this pacifist presents themself as a significant current when in reality they're a single person not any real group.
Shit reference (AWL) but this is the flavour of what I've heard about Ukrainian pacifists.
The Ukrainian Pacifist Movement
In late April Yuri Sheliazhenko, Executive Secretary of the Ukrainian Pacifist Movement (UPM), was listed as a speaker at an online meeting organised by the Socialist Labour Network (SLN). The title of the meeting was: “Ukraine: Truth and Lies. Was the massacre of over 700 civilians at Bucha...
ska invita
back on the other side
It was widely reported from day one when men of fighting age were stopped from crossing the Ukrainian border with their families
This is from last month
LINK
Ukraine had the draft before this invasion, and they are using it now under martial law conditions
Person interviewed here says friends of his drafted received 5 days of training
If you search online there are plenty other sources
friedaweed
Me and me girl named Jane
I don't think these future conscripts will be getting much more than a run around the assault course and a quick drill on pilthering white goods. At least they'll get a nize Z to wear on their recycled uniforms.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Where they are being sent are can't imagine there are many left nick.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Not wanting to detract from the authoritative view on pacifists in Ukraine by Gloria De Piero's , the GB News presenter , former Trotskyist group, however, The European Bureau for Conscientious Objection did a useful summary on conscientious objectors for their petition to the EU this year.
Here is there 2020 report on Ukraine which states that there were s 30,030, conscripted in Ukraine in that year and according to the information provided by the local state administrations to the Ukrainian Pacifist Movement, in 2020 approximately 1,538 conscientious objectors conduct alternative service,
ebco-beoc.org
Here is there 2020 report on Ukraine which states that there were s 30,030, conscripted in Ukraine in that year and according to the information provided by the local state administrations to the Ukrainian Pacifist Movement, in 2020 approximately 1,538 conscientious objectors conduct alternative service,
Ukraine | European Bureau for Conscientious Objection
ebco-beoc.org
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I don't suppose you've a more credible referenceI was asking if there was any evidence that was happening as it's a serious accusation. The word of mouth from someone there that this pacifist presents themself as a significant current when in reality they're a single person not any real group.
Shit reference (AWL) but this is the flavour of what I've heard about Ukrainian pacifists.
The Ukrainian Pacifist Movement
In late April Yuri Sheliazhenko, Executive Secretary of the Ukrainian Pacifist Movement (UPM), was listed as a speaker at an online meeting organised by the Socialist Labour Network (SLN). The title of the meeting was: “Ukraine: Truth and Lies. Was the massacre of over 700 civilians at Bucha...www.workersliberty.org
friedaweed
Me and me girl named Jane
You're probably right our kid. One of the big holes in the philosophy of old Vlad's SMO to denatzify Ukrain and free it's people from the terrible overlords they have. "And whilst you're there nick their houshold goods, rape and pillage and off anyone who doesn't lick your boots. clean". It amazing that there are still Russians that are swallowing the mantra
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Head of the pacifist 'movement' in Ukraine, or as he titles himself, "Legal scholar, public intellectual, and self-believer. Executive secretary of Ukrainian Pacifist Movement".
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh it's amazing what people will believe, just look at all the royalists in this countryYou're probably right our kid. One of the big holes in the philosophy of old Vlad's SMO to denatzify Ukrain and free it's people from the terrible overlords they have. "And whilst you're there nick their houshold goods, rape and pillage and off anyone who doesn't lick your boots. clean". It amazing that there are still Russians that are swallowing the mantra
ska invita
back on the other side
TBF I think forced conscription of those Ukrainians unwilling is limited, though it does seem to happen. The vast majority have volunteered, and I dont think at this stage Ukraine is short of troops. Its not directly comparable to what is happening in Russia and Im not trying to draw a false equivalence. However it is a thing, the draft has long existed,and social pressure to fight will be intense
friedaweed
Me and me girl named Jane
Aye fair doo's but I don't think there would be the same apetite in our yoof to a call up for war than there is middle aged folk thinking the queen was some sort of golden orb. Most kids I interact with didnea give a fuck about whats gone on here the last 2 weeks. I think Liz would have a hard job mobilising our young folk without paying them in 20 bags and issuing the latest threads.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
There never is. If a war was popular then there'd be no need for a draft
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah fair enough. I bristled at the pacifist thing as they seem to be politically dodgy as fuck there, and unfairly jumped to the above. Anyway, derail a go-go.
friedaweed
Me and me girl named Jane
Nope but i think my unlimited supply of 20 bags and £500 of Cahhart threads idea would enlist a few COD gamers.
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
It's pretty weird alright ... initially I wondered if they were afraid to be seen by Putin as harbouring deserters on the run? Maybe they dont want Russia to invade them next?
But I'd imagine Finland and Georgia are worried about a Russian invasion too but they seem to be soaking up all Russians escaping.
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Ming
I shot a man in Reno...
Could you imagine that lot in the same unit?
Nikkormat
Well-Known Member
Given the political and economic situation in Czech Republic right now, it is completely understandable. We have in the region of 400,000 Ukrainian refugees here, in a country with a total population of around 10.5 million, inflation currently running at 17%, and a population split between those looking west and a fair number who support authoritarian parties and look to Putin as an example (see my post in the other thread about the pro-Putin protest in Prague a couple of weeks ago).
The wording is shit, but that's not unusual for Czech politicians. It's not about toadying up to Russia or fear of invasion. The current government - a broadly centre-right, west-looking coalition - is absolutely against Russia.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Yeah fair, I can see the difficulty in hundreds of thousands of Russians turning up tbh
Nikkormat
Well-Known Member
Yeah fair, I can see the difficulty in hundreds of thousands of Russians turning up tbh
There is also the issue that most Czechs hate Russians of any sort.
If the government welcomed potential conscripts as refugees, they would alienate their centre-right & liberal base, and the already weak coalition would lose the next election, likely to Babiš (ANO party, populist), a deeply corrupt billionaire and former StB (Communist era secret police) agent. It would also result in even more support for the pro-Putin SPD (Fascists) and KSČM (Communists, although really indistinguishable from the fash - they share the same voter base). Politics in this country are fucked beyond belief.
Edit to add: on the subject of the pro-Putin protest, I think there are several more planned across the country for this weekend.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
How are Ukrainian refugees faring in Czech Republic tho? Has there been much hostility towards them?
Nikkormat
Well-Known Member
There were already 100,000-200,000 Ukrainians here as migrant workers, usually doing cleaning or labouring work. I'd say they were looked on pretty much as the Irish were in England in the 1960s, and treated similarly. The extra 400,000 or so were initially welcomed; people opened their homes to them, donated food and clothing etc. I know a couple of people still hosting families. Government support was reasonable to start with, but I think it's limited over time, so those who have been here more than six months or so get less. I don't know on that one.
As the war has dragged on, and as inflation and energy prices have started to bite, I think there is a change. I am not in touch enough to be able to say for sure, but an increase in support for ANO (and their poster campaign along the lines of "it was better when we were in power") and the shockingly large protest the other week suggest that people are reverting to self-interest.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
What I find odd about these POW exchanges is firstly the high percentage of AZOV members exchanged out of the thousands of Ukrainian POWs. Secondly, the Russians and the occupied areas made a lot of noise about prosecuting them for war crimes, and there was some footage showing the courtroom and cells being prepared, I seem to remember that the Russian Parliament at least debated or even wanted no more swaps of AZOV POWs . Then in the blink of an eye the AZOV operational leadership is transferred to 'house arrest' in Turkey, the 'volunteer/soldiers of fortune are released mid way during court proceedings /been given a guilty verdict and the 200 AZOV are back in Ukraine.
Anyone , with any serious ideas on the logic of this?
Anyone , with any serious ideas on the logic of this?
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
The Z fans are pointing to the alleged fact that Medvedchuk (the Ukrainian pro Putin oligarch) is godfather to Putin's children. No idea if that's true. It really does seem weird.
elbows
Well-Known Member
He is godfather to Putins children and Putin has described him as a personal friend. He was also the highest profile prisoner and there is usually some propaganda incentive to have highly visible prisoners like that included in swaps, since their release is so easy to paint as a really obvious 'something we've gained from this deal', even if less well known prisoners are actually more precious.
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