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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

Of course they would. If only to provide humanitarian aid and rescue people. If it was an airburst it wouldn't even be particularly dangerous.


Did anyone go into Japan: Hiroshima & Nagasaki with humanitarian aid? Serious question..

Unspeakable suffering: the humanitarian impact of nuclear weapons​


The pdf in the webpage above is worth reading.

The stress is completely on prevention...because nuclear war is unthinkable in its destructive impact on everything in its wake
 
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Did anyone go into Japan: Hiroshima & Nagasaki with humanitarian aid? Serious question..



The pdf in the webpage above is worth reading.

The stress is completely on prevention...because nuclear war is unthinkable in its destructive impact on everything in its wake
Japan didn't surrender until over a week after Nagasaki, and I don't think the occupation began until a while after that, so I don't imagine there was any foreign humanitarian aid immediately afterwards, no.
 
Japan didn't surrender until over a week after Nagasaki, and I don't think the occupation began until a while after that, so I don't imagine there was any foreign humanitarian aid immediately afterwards, no.


There was nothing.

And I seriously doubt anyone could have helped much without being exposed to massive doses of radiation.
 
If I was Russian, I'd be really concerned about life after mobilization. It's going to be really hard for women to fight for equality and the same civil rights etc, if surviving men have this ultimate trump card. I imagine Russia has some don't ask don't tell thing (at best) regarding gay men, in which case the aftermath will be a relentless nightmare for gay men too regarding equal rights.

I thought this regarding Ukraine too. In addition to there being a lot of extremely traumatized people, there will be enough people who might say 'no, we aren't discussing equal rights' - and they'll have a point. The amount of work, and the depth of it, to rebuild that country while smoothing over these tensions is a daunting thought - the hard work of more than one generation.

I know there are other countries that do likewise, including the United States where boys have to register or progress through adulthood ineligible for pretty basic things and civil rights - and just look how women are treated there by half the states and the pussy grabber in chief. The Democrats recently tried to equalize this, and the Republicans blocked it - as of course they would.

'My body my choice' has to apply to everyone. If one section of the population is barred from leaving the country due to age and sex, those aren't equal civil rights. And it's a huge barrier to groups who are more regularly disadvantaged in peacetime, because you've handed every straight man between 16 and 60 the ultimate trump card. I really think it's a problem and a threat.
 
If I was Russian, I'd be really concerned about life after mobilization. It's going to be really hard for women to fight for equality and the same civil rights etc, if surviving men have this ultimate trump card. I imagine Russia has some don't ask don't tell thing (at best) regarding gay men, in which case the aftermath will be a relentless nightmare for gay men too regarding equal rights.

I thought this regarding Ukraine too. In addition to there being a lot of extremely traumatized people, there will be enough people who might say 'no, we aren't discussing equal rights' - and they'll have a point. The amount of work, and the depth of it, to rebuild that country while smoothing over these tensions is a daunting thought. The work of more than one generation.

I know there are other countries that do likewise, including the United States where boys have to register or progress through adulthood ineligible for pretty basic things and civil rights - and just look how women are treated there by half the states and the pussy grabber in chief. The Democrats recently tried to equalize this, and the Republicans blocked it - as of course they would.

'My body my choice' has to apply to everyone. If one section of the population is barred from leaving the country due to age and sex, those aren't equal civil rights. And it's a huge barrier to groups who are more regularly disadvantaged in peacetime, because you've handed every straight man between 16 and 60 the ultimate trump card. I really think it's a problem and a threat.
TBF, Ukraine seems to be a good deal more equal opportunities when it comes to women in the armed forces, so I imagine the gulf won't be nearly as wide as it is in Russia. I realise that women in Ukraine aren't subject to the same restrictions on leaving as men are, but it seems to be a step in the right direction.

And while there might be a bit of "don't ask, don't tell" about homosexuality in Russia, they're pretty discriminatory about it. Legally as much as anything else.
 
Nagasaki 45 days after, Hiroshima 60 days after but they weren't sitting a couple of hundred land miles away.

You'll find that mobilisation was to set up structures for government..

The Americans were interested in the effects of the bombs....as time went on but they didnt do much to help with immediate aid for survivors...as in clean water...food drops...


"American doctors and scientists who flocked by the hundreds to observe the effects of the radiation on the Japanese citizens. “American Army doctors flocked by the dozens to observe him. Japanese experts questioned him.”[5]
 
Yes, I know that in Ukraine you can choose to join anyway, like Finland, like the US - but it's the choice that's the key. The lack of choice is the trump card - 'you stood back safely while I was forced'. I just see it as being a future complication during societal reconstruction, or in Russia's specific case a huge block on any notion of progress.
 
You'll find that mobilisation was to set up structures for government..

The Americans were interested in the effects of the bombs....as time went on but they didnt do much to help with immediate aid for survivors...as in clean water...food drops...


"American doctors and scientists who flocked by the hundreds to observe the effects of the radiation on the Japanese citizens. “American Army doctors flocked by the dozens to observe him. Japanese experts questioned him.”[5]
Undoubtedly. But not because they were worried about the safety of their own troops.
 
You wouldn't want to lick the ground and you'd need to stay away from any fall out or rain but you'd be fine to walk down the street within a day or two of a nuclear blast.


I wouldnt want to risk it....if the area was large you would need to be able to withdraw 30km away from the centre at least..in order to have any reprieve from fallout and radiation.
Also you would need special clothing.

Even now in Belarus in Chernobyl you cannot spend more than a short time there...like 15 mins or maybe less? The radiation is still too much.
 
Denazification going well.

Even leaving aside the poor quality of Russian military training, I can't help but wonder what kind of fighting force a bunch of resentful, reluctant, and probably frightened people are going to make. When you factor in the appalling training...it's going to be a recipe for disaster. Putin will have to use a lot of his more competent troops just to act like the old zampolits used to do - standing behind the troops in the front line, shooting any who cut and run.
 
It's a job that just suits me,
defen-es-trating you would be,
If you could see what I can see,
When I'm bouncing Russians.
I've seen you bouncing Czechs which I suppose is similar
You'll find that mobilisation was to set up structures for government..

The Americans were interested in the effects of the bombs....as time went on but they didnt do much to help with immediate aid for survivors...as in clean water...food drops...


"American doctors and scientists who flocked by the hundreds to observe the effects of the radiation on the Japanese citizens. “American Army doctors flocked by the dozens to observe him. Japanese experts questioned him.”[5]
For me this entire line of posting seems really weird. Really weird. As has been pointed out the war continued for a week after nagasaki. And what do you think the Japanese attitude to air-dropped aid would be? Honest to god, what would you think if a nasty bomb levelled your city then a day or two later the same people said 'here's some aid'. Reckon you wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. But hiroshima and nagasaki weren't the greatest death tolls of the war, more people died in the fire-bombing of Tokyo. See Bombing of Tokyo (10 March 1945) - Wikipedia. To me it's really strange to see you suggest aid should have been given to people at hiroshima and nagasaki but to ignore hamburg and dresden and Tokyo and so on.
 
What makes you think they will only use an air burst?
It's the likeliest prospect - just as with conventional explosives, an airburst reduces the protection of trenches/foxholes, as the blast is coming down, rather than across the ground and being shadowed by such structures.

The only real reason for a groundburst nuclear attack, assuming they're not going for underground bunkers or something, is to deliberately irradiate an area, and while Russia might be mad enough to want to do that, their tactical goals are going to be better achieved with an airburst. Assuming they can make it work - in the early days of the Ukraine invasion, they seemed to be having trouble getting conventional shells to airburst, probably because of a lack of the appropriate fuzes.
 
Even leaving aside the poor quality of Russian military training, I can't help but wonder what kind of fighting force a bunch of resentful, reluctant, and probably frightened people are going to make. When you factor in the appalling training...it's going to be a recipe for disaster. Putin will have to use a lot of his more competent troops just to act like the old zampolits used to do - standing behind the troops in the front line, shooting any who cut and run.

There must be enough dissent amongst ordinary Russians now.


I've seen you bouncing Czechs which I suppose is similar

For me this entire line of posting seems really weird. Really weird. As has been pointed out the war continued for a week after nagasaki. And what do you think the Japanese attitude to air-dropped aid would be? Honest to god, what would you think if a nasty bomb levelled your city then a day or two later the same people said 'here's some aid'. Reckon you wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. But hiroshima and nagasaki weren't the greatest death tolls of the war, more people died in the fire-bombing of Tokyo. See Bombing of Tokyo (10 March 1945) - Wikipedia. To me it's really strange to see you suggest aid should have been given to people at hiroshima and nagasaki but to ignore hamburg and dresden and Tokyo and so on.


You need to have read the previous posts?
I said nobody sent aid...

See Post # 16921

Reference to the US was in response to another post..
 
It's the likeliest prospect - just as with conventional explosives, an airburst reduces the protection of trenches/foxholes, as the blast is coming down, rather than across the ground and being shadowed by such structures.

The only real reason for a groundburst nuclear attack, assuming they're not going for underground bunkers or something, is to deliberately irradiate an area, and while Russia might be mad enough to want to do that, their tactical goals are going to be better achieved with an airburst. Assuming they can make it work - in the early days of the Ukraine invasion, they seemed to be having trouble getting conventional shells to airburst, probably because of a lack of the appropriate fuzes.

Putin has been unpredicatable. Thrre is noyhing to stop him instigating a nuclear accident at a power station.
Or an underwater nuclear bomb elsewhere in Europe to intimidate.
 
There must be enough dissent amongst ordinary Russians now.





You need to have read the previous posts?
I said nobody sent aid...

See Post # 16921

Reference to the US was in response to another post..
When I said line I thought that made it clear I was referring to more than one post
 
You wouldn't want to lick the ground and you'd need to stay away from any fall out or rain but you'd be fine to walk down the street within a day or two of a nuclear blast.
The post strike radiation environment varies greatly with the fuzing profile, physics package design, yield selection and weather. I wouldn't want to loiter near a target ground-zero minus adequate PPE in the ensuing days after an airburst with a non-clean burnup.

Additionally, the point of an airburst (!= high altitude detonation) is that the positioning of the Mach stem shock will make that street hard to identify.
 
There is no "line"...

My point was to do with nuclear bombs and humanitarian aid
We only have two historic nukes.
And nobody sent aid
Yeh. They also killed a load of Americans, which people never seem to mention. I don't understand why you're so fixated on this aid bit for hiroshima and nagasaki but not for Tokyo, which after all (operation meetinghouse) left a million homeless and many, many thousands injured. Or about aid at all, when belligerent powers a) don't offer aid to their enemies, and b) have no real channels to do so.
 
Yeh. They also killed a load of Americans, which people never seem to mention. I don't understand why you're so fixated on this aid bit for hiroshima and nagasaki but not for Tokyo, which after all (operation meetinghouse) left a million homeless and many, many thousands injured. Or about aid at all, when belligerent powers a) don't offer aid to their enemies, and b) have no real channels to do so.


I am not fixated.

And, yes offering humanitarian aid wherever its needed to save civilian life during war is what makes us human.
 
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