Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[Pickman's model]

Russia should learn from US' experience in Vietnam: throwing poorly equipped, unmotivated and inadequately trained conscripts at a losing war is a recipe for civil unrest, a broken economy and political upheaval.

Why can't Putin see this?

Yeh the russians should learn from Vietnam and not Afghanistan even tho the latter has rather more relevance and resonance for russians

 

[bcuster]

Yeh the russians should learn from Vietnam and not Afghanistan even tho the latter has rather more relevance and resonance for russians

conscripts weren't used in afghanistan...

 

[Pickman's model]

conscripts weren't used in afghanistan...

The 1979-87 war not the post-9/11 one

E2a you do know the ussr was involved in afghanistan?

 

[agricola]

The two Brits who were sentenced to death in DNR have been released after Saudi Arabia acted as a go between to negotiate their release.

Good news, apparently all five have been released plus the Moroccan chap who got sentenced alongside them and some others.

 

[steveseagull]

Ten in total it seems

 

[The39thStep]

Vox pox from the streets of Moscow. Some are keener than others to die for the Motherland. One doesn't want to fight for other people's palaces; one is going to hide in his mum's basement; and one just wants to put local politicians up against the wall.

Didnt know that KFC were still going in Russia ?

 

[steveseagull]

Unfortunate lol

 

[maomao]

Unfortunate lol

I don't understand. They're in Russia and they get arrested for saying they're in favour of mobilisation. What am I missing?

 

[steveseagull]

I don't understand. They're in Russia and they get arrested for saying they're in favour of mobilisation. What am I missing?

I think they got mistaken for anti mobilization protesters by the rozzers

 

[agricola]

Modi and Erdogan can't stop Ukraine from fighting, and Ukraine's western allies have already committed to supporting Ukraine in regaining all of its lost territory - a Russian ceasefire isn't going to change that.

Besides, given that Russia are planning to annexe parts of Ukraine they don't even have control of (eastern Donetsk, northern Zaporizhzhia, western Kherson), surely they'll want to press on and liberate their Russian territories, right?

They can't, but I think there is a big potential gap between "committed to supporting Ukraine" and "committed to supporting Ukraine in regaining all of its lost territory".

 

[Leighsw2]

I wasted a minute clicking through that.

Might be worth flagging-up that it's a nonsense spoof piece.

I thought it was satire when I first saw it the better part of 30 years ago. Turns out it was a portent of the future!

 

[maomao]

I think they got mistaken for anti mobilization protesters by the rozzers

Odd, cause he's wearing a 'Russian Army' hoodie which I doubt would be popular with protestor types.

 

[Dystopiary]

One of the freed is Brahim Saaudun, young Moroccan guy who was also kidnapped.

 

[steveseagull]

Odd, cause he's wearing a 'Russian Army' hoodie which I doubt would be popular with protestor types.

Maybe they just got conscripted on the spot

 

[maomao]

Maybe they just got conscripted on the spot

Don't think the MVD do conscription. Would be great if people only put videos up when they had some sort of clue what was going on in them.

 

[steveseagull]

Don't think the MVD do conscription. Would be great if people only put videos up when they had some sort of clue what was going on in them.

We would never have had this fascinating discussion about what was going on in it if I had not posted it so there is that.

 

[planetgeli]

BBC R4 News has got a Russian spokesperson on now who actually sounds quite unhinged, bit scary tbh. (Edited2A: And yes, before I get slated, I know 'unhinged' isn't a great political analysis and I'm not putting this down to some 'they're all insane' thing, but fucking hell not very hopeful impression he gave.)

It was frightening. You had to hear it because it was the vigour with which he spoke and the totally unfiltered matter-of-fact way he talked of bombing London with nuclear weapons. And when he was asked if he was prepared to see a war where everyone dies he replied "Not everyone" but you know he really wanted to go back and say "not quite everyone".

Sergei Markov by the way.

 

[steveseagull]

Some context!

 

[rubbershoes]

Frieda has a sit-down with Spy:

View attachment 343845View attachment 343844

And we know how that ends

 

[Leighsw2]

If you're bored and want something to read, the story of the Northern Fleet and their redeployment to the Far East - which ended in the Battle of Tsushima - is a great historical saga. Similar tale of much vaunted force turning out to be a barely trained crew of gunfodder with low morale. And was one of the direct causes of the Revolution itself. They almost started a war with Britain before they'd even got going!

Gives a good overview - didn't realise the Russian '2nd Pacific Squadron' almost started a war with Britain!

 

[Flavour]

Can everyone please stop posting crap tweets thanks

 

[two sheds]

sorry

 

[Flavour]

The protests in Moscow are a great sign. Handling massive civil unrest at home plus a war they are so clearly struggling with in the near abroad plus all the other cracks from sanctions, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan... It's going to take a heavy toll. I expect more rich old men to commit suicide in mysterious ways.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Russia should learn from US' experience in Vietnam: throwing poorly equipped, unmotivated and inadequately trained conscripts at a losing war is a recipe for civil unrest, a broken economy and political upheaval.

Why can't Putin see this?

ah - but that was the decadent, Lilly livered Americans - proud Russians are made of much sterner stuff .

 

[existentialist]

anyone else irritated by the use of the term de-fang?

IMO, it's a perfect description. Russia must be rendered unable to go in for this sort of adventurism again.

 

[The39thStep]

IMO, it's a perfect description. Russia must be rendered unable to go in for this sort of adventurism again.

Well just say that then , then everyone in real life will know what you are on about.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

An unhappy Russki writes...

"Back in the good old days of the Soviet Union, we used to take advantage of other countries to fight proxy wars agains the US for us - in Korea Vietnam, Afghanistan. And due to special genius of Putin we are the proxy in the conflict between the US and China.

Russian men are requested to fight not only for their oligarchs’ yachts and mansions, but for the prosperity of their new Chinese masters."

 

[gosub]

Russia-Ukraine updates: Zelenskyy says Russian call-up had already begun | DW | 21.09.2022

Ukraine's president has said in a German interview that Vladimir Putin's speech about calling up reservists was "no news for me." He said the process had already begun earlier. DW rounds up the latest.

www.dw.com

 

[The39thStep]

Got to love the Yanks

 

[Ming]

If Putin nukes Ukraine I would assume that would trigger WW3 since the west would have to reply.

Makes the 30p price increase on the price of Butter in Tesco this morning seem somewhat irrelevant.



When I was a kid, the 2020's were meant to be the point we travelled to space. According to the books I read about 'the future'. Not an era of pandemic and nuclear uncertainty.

I always wanted to see the future. Not sure I want it served in mushroom cloud

I know what you mean.

I remember a speculative science book my parents got me for Christmas in the 70’s (I’m in my 50’s). In one bit it had two visions of the future.

Left hand page was an environmental paradise with people wondering around in white robes with glass pyramids.

The other page had basically Bladerunner. Rain, gas masks, neon, concrete, etc.

And as a naive young human i thought ‘well obviously the people in charge are going to go for the optimistic left hand page version of the future, right?’.

How wrong i was. I’ve worked in psychiatry for 15 years and what i now know of the human condition has changed my outlook somewhat.