Kyiv furious as EU fails to block Russia from Swift payment system
Ukraine foreign minister voices anger as EU leaders decide against blocking Russia from international payments system
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Former deputy PM of Ukraine just said on ch4 news that Ukraine forces recaptured the airport and blew up the runway.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Ah bless, as they say.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
At the moment I’d take anything from either side with massive grains of salt unless backed up by images and a note from a priest or doctor of good standing
TopCat
Putin fanboy
There is you and The Sun too. Strange times.
cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
spitfire
Walty McWaltface
On Sky this morning they were focused on 3 soldiers burning documents on a huge bonfire, (Sky presenter thought it was a missile impact because of the smoke). I couldn't make out their uniforms so wasn't sure if it was an embassy or a Ukrainian govt. building. They all seemed fairly relaxed about it but I guess that's a plum job to be given at that point.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Well the context is not just Ukraine joining or not it is other countries having already joined.
But going on about NATO is all a bit silly NATO is not an independent entry, it is a tool of large Western countries largely the US.
While obviously the responsibility for the invasion of Ukraine is Putin's alone the US and other NATO members have played a role in creating a international political landscape where this is a possibility.
It's been nearly 20 years since I was in the SWP but fuck it "neither Washington nor Moscow" sounds pretty fucking relevant to me right now.
I mean let's not kid ourselves. The US and UK governments are capable of just the same or worse in the right situation.
They are all a bunch of imperialist fucks who could not give a shit about the lives of people in Ukraine, Russia the US or the UK.
Fuck them all.
cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
Well, you have already shown yourself up as a complete muppet, by supporting the Portuguese Communist Party statement, so do excuse me for not taking you seriously.
elbows
Well-Known Member
If it was the same one the BBC live updates page mentioned much earlier, that I also mentioned on the this thread some hours before my last post on that theme, it was outside the defence intelligence building.
spitfire
Walty McWaltface
Ah right, cheers, I didn't see your earlier post, there's been a lot going on...
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Denmark is in nato
not-bono-ever
meh
Surprised that the runways at airfields -military ones at the very least- were not already prepped to avoid potential use by an invader.
Yeah I just saw footage on facebook of people being arrested.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh you'd have thought they'd have explosives ready to crater it. Maybe putinist fifth columnists defused them
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
In 2014 Russia was responding to a crises - the (western backed) overthrow of a pro-Russian regime in Ukraine. Its was ruthless and cuntish - but the seizure of the Crimea and instigating an "independence" struggle in the east of the country was a rational act to protect of Russian strategic interests - Russia would have been strategically and politically weaker if it hadn't done it.
A completely unprovoked full on invasion is way, way beyond that and unprecedented in its scale and potential repercussions in post WW2 European (or world?) history. Its also batshit - it can only really end badly for Putin - it will unite all Russia's rivals and push all it western neighbours into NATO. This is strategy driven by paranoia and ardent nationalism rather than rational self interest - so is hugely dangerous. That's what i meant by kicking the table over.
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
I had it on in the background on the tv and because I rarely watch tv news I'm not familiar with his voice. I thought it was the character from Don't Look Up... The tech dude that wants to mine the comet
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Freedom has a big round-up of Russian anti-war protests:
Russian anarchists against the Putin regime’s war with Ukraine
Russian anarchists against the Putin regime’s war with Ukraine
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I would not want to be arrested in Russia - kudos to the protesters who've put themselves in danger, do you know if there's an ABC or similar to donate to for them? Maybe missed it upthread if posted
elbows
Well-Known Member
Also note the book I mentioned earlier:
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
Oh how I hope this is a massive cyber attack from the west, Russia has been getting away with that sort of shit for too long, it's got to be our turn.
www.urban75.net
I dont like to focus on that shitty chessboard and empires exclusively because otherwise it just becomes a story of large powers and individual humans lives and circumstances are lost from the picture, and I'll be no willing apologist for states and regimes of any stripe. But there isnt much point denying the large geopolitical games that have been played in Ukraine for long over a decade, and their implications and the raising of the stakes. And of course the way such things are reported on in the west, which is usually well in tune with the standard US rhetoric we heard again from Biden today, staking claim to concepts like democracy and freedom and rejecting competing empires right to be empires and to make use of brute force, invasion and other forms of hard power, whilst reserving the right to justify and make use of such power ourselves.
Likewise it does a disservice to people and to the struggle against regimes and dictators to characterise the 'colour revolutions' including the one Ukraine had in the same terms as the likes of Russia do, to imply that they are only the result of external meddling and propaganda by the likes of the USA. But to entirely dismiss those aspects also does a disservice to the truth. Somehow we have to find ways to acknowledge and discuss all of these aspects without falling into some traditional traps of crude anti-imperialism or the mindset and propaganda of the powers and ideological landscape we've lived under in our own countries in our lifetimes. And of course moments like this where war and death are underway can pose additional challenges in getting beyond the crudest of propaganda storylines and polarised simplifications.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
We don't have to imagine what he'd say, he's still out there:Can you picture the scenes in Washington if Trump was in the White House. Despite the invasion, he would have said: "I looked Putin in the eye and asked him: are these Russian troops that are in Ukraine and he said "No". And I believe him"
Trump praises ‘genius’ Putin for moving troops to eastern Ukraine
Former president says Russian leader made ‘very savvy’ decision to recognise two territories of eastern Ukraine as independent
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
'mon the horizontal society, siestas all year round!
not-bono-ever
meh
Common down in the balkans from recent conflicts iirc. Zeljava complex was built with access points to facilitate this - and was used by the retreating Serbs/ variants
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Well said ElbowsAlso note the book I mentioned earlier:
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
Oh how I hope this is a massive cyber attack from the west, Russia has been getting away with that sort of shit for too long, it's got to be our turn.
I dont like to focus on that shitty chessboard and empires exclusively because otherwise it just becomes a story of large powers and individual humans lives and circumstances are lost from the picture, and I'll be no willing apologist for states and regimes of any stripe. But there isnt much point denying the large geopolitical games that have been played in Ukraine for long over a decade, and their implications and the raising of the stakes. And of course the way such things are reported on in the west, which is usually well in tune with the standard US rhetoric we heard again from Biden today, staking claim to concepts like democracy and freedom and rejecting competing empires right to be empires and to make use of brute force, invasion and other forms of hard power, whilst reserving the right to justify and make use of such power ourselves.
Likewise it does a disservice to people and to the struggle against regimes and dictators to characterise the 'colour revolutions' including the one Ukraine had in the same terms as the likes of Russia do, to imply that they are only the result of external meddling and propaganda by the likes of the USA. But to entirely dismiss those aspects also does a disservice to the truth. Somehow we have to find ways to acknowledge and discuss all of these aspects without falling into some traditional traps of crude anti-imperialism or the mindset and propaganda of the powers and ideological landscape we've lived under in our own countries in our lifetimes. And of course moments like this where war and death are underway can pose additional challenges in getting beyond the crudest of propaganda storylines and polarised simplifications.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Sadly we'll have the weather for it soon
How is the threat of Ukraine becoming a member of NATO not a provocation to Putin?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
They are at that. I can only hope I'd be as brave in their position. They're out there despite a very real prospect of years in prison or, if the authorities feel like it, just being murdered.
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