Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[spitfire]

I've checked the account, it's real. Russia really do want Ukraine to cease existing.




(Right thread this time).

 

[IC3D]

Zelensky has been asking for talks since day one.
,Ukraine will be ready to negotiate with the Russian invaders only when the occupiers are ready to end the war, - Zelensky
There wouldn't be much to talk about otherwise surely?

 

[tim]

you'd be surprised what a penguin can do with a flipper and a bionic prosthesis

.

The Six Million Mackerel Penguin.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Pope Francis says Ukraine war was ‘perhaps somehow provoked’

Pontiff condemns ‘cruelty’ of Russian troops while warning against perception of conflict as good v evil

www.theguardian.com

So now it's official. The Pope reckons Putin was provoked. Perhaps. Somehow. Proof, if ever it was needed, that Putin wasn't provoked. Perhaps. Somehow.

 

[The39thStep]

My agreement with Frogwoman's post " Shouldn't have been there maybe but nasty shit." is based on:

1) my unease about fighters who move from country to country joining foreign battalions and engaging in war/military combat and ;
2) unease about a death sentence.

Just to correct a small but obvious error, these two didn't go to Ukraine to fight the Russian invasion. They had fought together in Syria against ISIS and had contacts from there who had fought in Donbas, they went separately to Ukraine around 2018 in order to seek employment in fighting against the forces backing separatism. Both passed the necessary training and were issued with renewable fixed term contracts in the Marine Corps which enabled them to be involved in armed fighting against the separatists. I'm not going to dispute your point that they made Ukraine their home and that they have long term relationships with Ukrainian women, Pinner is married to one, and Aslin is engaged to one. However, their primary if not their sole motivation for going to Ukraine was about the military experience opportunities ie fighting rather than anything else. There's a lot of research about foreign fighters and the consensus is that they are a mixed bag, amongst others, some are politically motivated, others war junkies, others who cannot get the same experience from their own country's military, and others who find civilian life unrewarding following military service.

I don't know what your position was/is on the appalling situation in Donbas over the past 8 years or so or who you support in it . However, I don't support any side in that tragic conflict and certainly don't support or advocate foreign fighters engaging in it. So hence the agreement with "Shouldn't have been there maybe"

As for the death sentence. its quite simple. The legislation that barred foreigners from enlisting in the Ukranian Military was amended in 2016. These men have passed the induction and training, are on paid contracts and have enlisted in the Marine Corps, and are members of the Ukrainian Armed Forces . They should be treated accordingly. I agree with you that the sentence is either a make an example or a bargaining chip for some deal. ,Hence my agreement with 'but bad shit'

Don't know what problem you were trying to suggest that I wanted to resolve with suggestions of deportation, banning from military service, and banning from all jobs but if it's the alarming problem of foreign fighters ( on both sides) in Ukraine, whether that's pre or post invasion , then those suggestions however well intended are a bit simplistic in my view.

Just a quick amendment update regarding both Aslin's and Pinner's route into the Marines .

Both joined the Georgian National Legion

Aslin is on the far left , next to him another 'career volunteer' Tony Giddings , on the far right John Harding



Pinner on the right



Pinner was also featured in a fascinating documentary Ukraine -Europe's Forgotten War made by ex Royal Marine Emile Ghesson (which I would thoroughly recommend) when he later joined Azov to do his NATO standard training

( Pinner interview starts about 56min 55 secs)

​

 

[Flavour]

if Russia's endgame is really the total destruction and reabsorbtion of Ukraine into Russia then Zelensky is pretty fucked -- can't surrender, but can't win.

Russia will feel they have the upper hand now, so even in the unlikely event Zelensky were to "offer" them to keep Luhansk and Donbass I think Putin would reject it and tell his army to keep going

 

[HAL9000]

This person has been positive for some time that Ukraine can succeed, clearly Ukraine is sufering enormous cost in terms of lives lost.

 

[The39thStep]

Keep this frequency clear

Exclusive: US fighters ‘captured’ by Russian forces in Ukraine​

Exclusive: US fighters ‘captured’ by Russian forces in Ukraine

archived 16 Jun 2022 06:02:43 UTC

archive.ph

 

[editor]

Keep this frequency clear

Exclusive: US fighters ‘captured’ by Russian forces in Ukraine​

Exclusive: US fighters ‘captured’ by Russian forces in Ukraine

archived 16 Jun 2022 06:02:43 UTC

archive.ph

Just to give some context - they're ex-soldiers:

Two former US servicemen have been captured during fighting with Russian forces in Ukraine, The Telegraph has learned.
The pair were taken prisoner during a fierce battle outside the north-east city of Kharkiv last week, according to comrades who were fighting alongside them.
Alexander Drueke, 39, and Andy Huynh, 27, had been serving as volunteers with a regular Ukrainian army unit. They are believed to be the first US servicemen to end up as Russian prisoners of war.

 

[agricola]

Johnson is over there again, telling fibs:

Boris Johnson has told the Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy that the UK is prepared to launch a major operation to train Ukrainian armed forces, Downing Street has said.

The prime minister told Zelenskiy that Britain could train up to 120,000 troops every 120 days, PA Media reported.
No 10 said international partners would be invited to host the programme, if the offer is accepted by Ukraine.
In a statement, Johnson said:

My visit today, in the depths of this war, is to send a clear and simple message to the Ukrainian people: the UK is with you and we will be with you until you ultimately prevail.

As Ukrainian soldiers fire UK missiles in defence of your nation’s sovereignty, they do so also in defence of the very freedoms we take for granted.

That is why I have offered President Zelenskiy a major new military training programme that could change the equation of this war - harnessing that most powerful of forces, the Ukrainian determination to win.

Backlash from Tory MPs as Boris Johnson misses Tory ‘red wall’ conference to make surprise visit to Kyiv – as it happened

This live blog is closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[WouldBe]

Andover might have become a Russian target. A test valley council Wheely bin has been found just over the Polish border.

 

[A380]

Johnson is over there again, telling fibs:

Backlash from Tory MPs as Boris Johnson misses Tory ‘red wall’ conference to make surprise visit to Kyiv – as it happened

This live blog is closed

www.theguardian.com

Didn't the Russians say they weren't going to honour 'mini local cease-fires' around western leader visits any more?


Surely Putin must have one cruise missile left; now that he can see he isn't getting his money back...

 

[Pickman's model]

Didn't the Russians say they weren't going to honour 'mini local cease-fires' around western leader visits any more?


Surely Putin must have one cruise missile left; now that he can see he isn't getting his money back...

if there's one thing that could unite the country it is the joy that would be unleashed when boris the bibber is banished from the world for good

 

[A380]

if there's one thing that could unite the country it is the joy that would be unleashed when boris the bibber is banished from the world for good

"Over here prime minister, we've borrowed this Russian portable sun lamp, just lay on that bed and I'll turn it on and bathe you in its light from over this side of the park..."

 

[JimW]

Perhaps he can pop round and explain personally to some of those teenage kids we fucked about at the visa centres then sent back to a war zone what that was all about.

 

[agricola]

the hubris is incredible:

 

[Pickman's model]

the hubris is incredible:

He was on the train to Doncaster but bottled it, pulled the emergency cord and leapt off when the train halted at New Southgate

 

[bcuster]

British Defense head analysis:

‘Russia is failing’ in Ukraine and has already ‘strategically lost’ the war, says the head of Britain’s armed forces

Russia is a “more diminished power” as a result of its invasion of Ukraine, the head of the British armed forces also said.

fortune.com

 

[ska invita]

British Defense head analysis:

‘Russia is failing’ in Ukraine and has already ‘strategically lost’ the war, says the head of Britain’s armed forces

Russia is a “more diminished power” as a result of its invasion of Ukraine, the head of the British armed forces also said.

fortune.com

headline alone comes over a bit cheerier than the reality that also says "It is now blatantly obvious that Ukraine may not regain full control of all its territory".... this bit " more importantly it will remain a state that will challenge Russian influence in the region.” is ominous when coming from a British war twonk

 

[Ming]

Johnson is over there again, telling fibs:

Backlash from Tory MPs as Boris Johnson misses Tory ‘red wall’ conference to make surprise visit to Kyiv – as it happened

This live blog is closed

www.theguardian.com

I think it‘s great that he really cares about Ukraine. He really has a moral center like Churchill. Cynics who think he’s just doing it for votes need to check their heads. Does Doncaster have less votes than a potential ’war leader‘ bounce (asking for a friend)?

 

[Raheem]

Not sure "Boris Johnson is taking the train to Doncaster" is even a valid English sentence.

 

[maomao]

Not sure "Boris Johnson is taking the train to Doncaster" is even a valid English sentence.

It sounds like a euphemism. Not sure what for though.

 

[ska invita]

It sounds like a euphemism. Not sure what for though.

the fact hes not even on the train is the perfect euphemism

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Not sure "Boris Johnson is taking the train to Doncaster" is even a valid English sentence.

It sounds like a euphemism. Not sure what for though.

"Boris Johnson is taking the train to Doncaster" is surely a euphemism for "Boris Johnson is taking the train to Barnard Castle"

 

[two sheds]

I was thinking of rail-related Ugandan discussions which given his history ...

 

[Pickman's model]

I think it‘s great that he really cares about Ukraine. He really has a moral center like Churchill. Cynics who think he’s just doing it for votes need to check their heads. Does Doncaster have less votes than a potential ’war leader‘ bounce (asking for a friend)?

This would be the Ukraine whose refugees everyone else is welcoming with open arms but Britain, who has housed refugees with perverts and allowed many refugees who make it here to become homeless

Yeh Johnson really gives a shit about Ukraine and Ukrainians

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Amazing woman, amazing family…

Ukraine’s first lady Olena Zelenska on being Russia’s target No 2: ‘When you see their crimes, maybe they really are capable of anything’

Her husband Volodymyr Zelenskiy is leading his nation’s resistance to Putin’s invasion – and her family is under threat. In a rare interview, she reveals the toll of sudden war

www.theguardian.com

 

[Artaxerxes]

Not sure "Boris Johnson is taking the train to Doncaster" is even a valid English sentence.

Surprised Doncaster has trains people can use at this point, I assume it’s a special service and he’s not on a standard train

 

[Dystopiary]

Yulia Payevska, the captured paramedic who filmed hours of footage of the seige of Mariupol, is now free.

 

[existentialist]

Surprised Doncaster has trains people can use at this point, I assume it’s a special service and he’s not on a standard train

I was going to say, "If Ukraine can run a train service, the UK can...", and then realised what a silly thought that was.