Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[frogwoman]

If Moldova got attacked it would imo be an entirely different story imo. A lot of tensions between the Russian and Romanian speaking population, although things may have changed since I was there

 

[Dogsauce]

Agree. Others will know better but I get the sense that this dehumanisation of the Russian speaking population began some time ago

There’s been a process of ‘decommunisation’ in recent times involving removing statues and changing street names, with the same sort of shame as Nazi monuments were removed in Germany. This is conflated/confused with anti-Russian sentiment, like it’s a big dis of the Red Army. It’s one of the reasons Russian troops have been flying soviet-era flags, because it looks like their history and the bloodied victory over Germany in WWII is being erased, which given the cost of that victory is quite offensive to many Russians, so a reaction against that rather than a pro-communist position.

 

[frogwoman]

Yeah Soviet stuff in Ukraine and Russia really doesn't have a lot to do with left wing sentiment ime. A lot of the time it's exactly the opposite

 

[A380]

The orcs analogy came from UKR soldiers describing Russian conscripts from the east looking Mongolian and dark skinned it's dodgy.

Link to your source for this please?

 

[Hollis]

Some pretty intense combat footage.. (dunno if this is the right thread or not..)

 

[Dystopiary]

dp

 

[Dystopiary]

Agree. Others will know better but I get the sense that this dehumanisation of the Russian speaking population began some time ago

Dehumanisation of other people by Russians has been going on for a long time. People who aren't ethnically Russian, esp non-Slavic are looked down on and even abused in Russia. And a well-known slur word for Ukrainians is hardly uncommon. Can't be very nice for Ukrainians in Russia right now. See all those intercepted messages of Russian fighters in Ukraine too - "H... this" and "H... that," nasty. Not saying it's ok to dehumanise anyone, Russian or otherwise, of course.

 

[A380]

.

 

[A380]

Link to your source for this please?

So made up then, like many of your other posts.

 

[Raheem]

.

Douze point.

 

[frogwoman]

Yeah the idea that theres some massive demonisation of Russian speakers isn't really accurate I'm afraid. Kharkiv, Kherson, Odessa, Mariupol etc are all Russian speaking (and to a large extent actually ethnic Russian) cities which are the most badly hit by the war whereas places in Western Ukraine like Lviv that were traditionally seen as hotbeds of Ukrainian nationalism and Bandera support have hardly been touched.

What I think is a problem is the assumption with refugees fleeing to the UK that they all speak Ukrainian or don't want to speak Russian and that seems to be a massive problem with local councils when there are loads of Russian speakers and actual Russians that want to help, and loads of refugees coming here don't speak Ukrainian very well or speak a mixture of Russian and Ukrainian (Surzhik). I think the policy some countries (Poland IIRC) have put in of not accepting refugees from Ukraine with Russian or Belarusian passports is a real problem.

not the number 1 thing I'd be concerned about currently in Ukraine and I don't want to say too much online as it affects someone I know but there are plenty of people who were born and brought up in Russia but moved to Ukraine and still have Russian passports etc, I think that's the number one thing I'd be worried about post war in terms of discrimination against Russians. I don't think it's guaranteed to happen and I don't know of any examples of people getting abuse but I wouldn't blame them for being worried especially if this drags on for years.

 

[The39thStep]

Dehumanisation of other people by Russians has been going on for a long time. People who aren't ethnically Russian, esp non-Slavic are looked down on and even abused in Russia. And a well-known slur word for Ukrainians is hardly uncommon. Can't be very nice for Ukrainians in Russia right not. See all those intercepted messages of Russian fighters in Ukraine too - "H... this" and "H... that," nasty. Not saying it's ok to dehumanise anyone, Russian or otherwise, of course.

Absolutely but my comment was to try and seek out how/ when about the orcs language and the attitudes to people in the east in Ukraine not a tit for tat about Russia tbh

 

[frogwoman]

I do think though there are other places in the FSU which have the potential to become a real civil war type bloodbath if war breaks out or they are invaded. We haven't seen that in Ukraine and are unlikely to imo unless the Ukrainian army try to retake Crimea and maybe parts of the DNR or something.

 

[SpookyFrank]

chalk and cheese though? The conventional phase of the Iraq War was very successful from the US point of view - but against a very weak unmotivated opposition. Anti-Insurgency warfare - like in Afghanistan and Iraq post invasion - is completely different and is all about intelligence gathering and policing rather than tanks and bombers.

So we did really well right up until the other lot started fighting back.

I've got a submarine to sell you. Works great until you put it in water.

 

[frogwoman]

Dehumanisation of other people by Russians has been going on for a long time. People who aren't ethnically Russian, esp non-Slavic are looked down on and even abused in Russia. And a well-known slur word for Ukrainians is hardly uncommon. Can't be very nice for Ukrainians in Russia right not. See all those intercepted messages of Russian fighters in Ukraine too - "H... this" and "H... that," nasty. Not saying it's ok to dehumanise anyone, Russian or otherwise, of course.

Normalised among parts of the Russian opposition too unfortunately. Recently an old tweet by Navalny resurfaced in which he had used this word.

 

[Dystopiary]

Normalised among parts of the Russian opposition too unfortunately. Recently an old tweet by Navalny resurfaced in which he had used this word.

Yeah, he seems well iffy.

 

[frogwoman]

Yeah, he seems well iffy.

Yeah it's bad. Unfortunately right now the main dividing line in Russian politics is pro or anti Putin and that means a lot of the time all sorts of alliances get made with people that in normal times you wouldn't give the time of day to. I can't really judge protesters who are at risk of being locked up or actually have been but I also don't blame some Ukrainians who are understandably fucked off and fucked off at the tendency of some Russian liberals to blame everything on Putin rather than other aspects of society.

 

[Dogsauce]

Yeah Soviet stuff in Ukraine and Russia really doesn't have a lot to do with left wing sentiment ime. A lot of the time it's exactly the opposite

Yes, just shitty nationalism like nearly everywhere in the world at the moment.

 

[Yossarian]

Link to your source for this please?

According to Le Monde, the Tolkein comparisons date to long before the invasion.

As far back as 2015, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko used the word "Mordor" to refer to Putin's concept of a "New Russia," which incorporates the eastern Ukrainian territories controlled by pro-Russian separatists into the Russian Federation. In 2016, Google's translation tool was hacked to yield "мордор," Mordor, when translating the word "Russia" from Ukrainian.

Ukrainian and Russian Tolkien fans battle over the legacy of 'The Lor…

archived 24 Apr 2022 18:41:11 UTC

archive.ph

 

[Graymalkin]

Whoops. Butt post.

 

[zahir]

Report on the Jewish community in Dnipro

Ukraine's Jewish Community Fights Back Against Russia's Invasion -- and Against Putin's Lies

Leaders of Dnipro’s thriving Jewish community speak out about their history, their country, and their rejection of Vladimir Putin’s lies about “denazification”

www.rollingstone.com

 

[frogwoman]

I dunno if it's the same in Ukraine but Jews in Moldova are largely Russian speaking. I follow some synagogues and Jewish pages in Chișinău and all their announcements are in Russian.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

According to Le Monde, the Tolkein comparisons date to long before the invasion.

As far back as 2015, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko used the word "Mordor" to refer to Putin's concept of a "New Russia," which incorporates the eastern Ukrainian territories controlled by pro-Russian separatists into the Russian Federation. In 2016, Google's translation tool was hacked to yield "мордор," Mordor, when translating the word "Russia" from Ukrainian.

Ukrainian and Russian Tolkien fans battle over the legacy of 'The Lor…

archived 24 Apr 2022 18:41:11 UTC

archive.ph

I get it now. Putin is the Dark Lord, Lukashenko is Saruman, Zelensky is Aragorn, Boris Johnson ........ Gollum?

 

[Pickman's model]

I get it now. Putin is the Dark Lord, Lukashenko is Saruman, Zelensky is Aragorn, Boris Johnson ........ Gollum?

Bill ferny

 

[Sue]

Can't see it on their website right now, but the BBC are reporting Russia may have lost up to a third of the ground troops it started with. Which is astonishing if true.

(Seems to be based on US intelligence, no idea how accurate that is.)

 

[frogwoman]

‘I’m too old for this’: the harrowing flight from Donetsk’s perilous border towns

Urged to evacuate, vulnerable residents are being carried to safety in makeshift volunteer convoys

www.theguardian.com

 

[frogwoman]

FFS

 

[frogwoman]

Thread about racism and fascist sympathies in the Russian state

Thread by @Vokabre on Thread Reader App

@Vokabre: b) The head of the space agency of Russia is this guy. Not only was he marching with swastikas, he e.g. believes that the independence of countries like Ukraine is the result of "ethnic nationalist plot...…

threadreaderapp.com

 

[A380]

According to Le Monde, the Tolkein comparisons date to long before the invasion.

As far back as 2015, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko used the word "Mordor" to refer to Putin's concept of a "New Russia," which incorporates the eastern Ukrainian territories controlled by pro-Russian separatists into the Russian Federation. In 2016, Google's translation tool was hacked to yield "мордор," Mordor, when translating the word "Russia" from Ukrainian.

https://archive.ph/TzyT7#selection-1517.80-1521.314[

http://

So Sean Bean is fucked if they cast him in a film about the invasion then.

It still doesn't support IC3D latest tankie nonsense

 

[MickiQ]

http://

So Sean Bean is fucked if they cast him in a film about the invasion then.

It still doesn't support IC3D latest tankie nonsense

Sean Bean dies horribly in so many films that even he thinks its funny