Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[tim]

Much as I can appreciate their distress, I do wonder what they think the Ukrainian authorities can do?

Whatever they can or can't do, breaking up demonstrations and forcibly conscripting those who disagrees with government policy suggests that they are not doing as much as they could.

The Russians want to label as Nazis, and then torture or murder those still in Mariupol and the Ukrainian regime sees that as a propaganda victory.

 

[nogojones]

Much as I can appreciate their distress, I do wonder what they think the Ukrainian authorities can do?

Well yes. I don't think the Russia will just let them walk or let helicopters fly in. But it's not a good look using the cops to break it up.

 

[existentialist]

Well yes. I don't think the Russia will just let them walk or let helicopters fly in. But it's not a good look using the cops to break it up.

Not that comparisons with Russia mean anything, but at least they're not now looking at swingeing fines or 15 years in prison...

 

[nogojones]

Not that comparisons with Russia mean anything, but at least they're not now looking at swingeing fines or 15 years in prison...

Just getting sent to the front

 

[Cid]

Just getting sent to the front

Tbf more likely getting sent to man a checkpoint somewhere.

Not that it isn't a shitty thing to be doing.

 

[NoXion]

Tbf more likely getting sent to man a checkpoint somewhere.

Not that it isn't a shitty thing to be doing.

Can't be too valuable a checkpoint. Conscripting anti-war protestors seems like a way of turning a mere nuisance into a potential liability. Seems like they would make for unenthusiastic soldiers at best.

 

[frogwoman]

I thought the protest was by relatives of soldiers in Mariupol? Not exactly anti war, more wanting the government to do more to ensure the safety of their relatives?

 

[8ball]

I thought the protest was by relatives of soldiers in Mariupol? Not exactly anti war, more wanting the government to do more to ensure the safety of their relatives?

Not being at war is a big safety bonus.

 

[keybored]

It would be one hell of a propaganda win if so

The Russian Frigate ‘Admiral Makarov’ Might Be The Juiciest Target In The Black Sea

After the dramatic sinking of the missile-cruiser Moskva by a Ukrainian missile battery on April 14, the Russian Black Sea Fleet is down to just three major surface combatants. The best and most important of them might be the new missile-frigate 'Admiral Makarov.'

www.forbes.com

Putin rn...

 

[frogwoman]

Not being at war is a big safety bonus.

I've been following this a bit on twitter and it seems the issue is civilians are being evacuated from the Azovstal steelworks but wounded soldiers (Azov and marines) are not being allowed to, and their safety cannot be guaranteed. The Ukrainian government shouldn't be dealing with the protest the way they are but I wouldn't have thought it's strictly 'anti war'.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Whatever they can or can't do, breaking up demonstrations and forcibly conscripting those who disagrees with government policy suggests that they are not doing as much as they could.

The Russians want to label as Nazis, and then torture or murder those still in Mariupol and the Ukrainian regime sees that as a propaganda victory.

Russia wants to do this, Ukraine wants to do that.

What Ukraine didn’t want was for Russia to invade.

Everything else is a result of that moment. Appreciate your Quakerism, but that is no way to run a country that is being invaded unless you want to wholly capitulate. Anything less than that then pacifist comment is just wasted breath.

War is fucking horrific, for the first time we are seeing an old fashioned invasion/occupation war in real time, as it happens, but when it happens you can either fight it or submit to the aggressor. Those are your only two choices, so unless you have some strategic genius to offer, slagging off the Ukrainians for being violent in their riposte is trite and not useful to anything much Tim.

 

[frogwoman]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/wives-of-mariupol-defenders-appeal-for-soldiers-evacuation/2022/04/30/9d970ff6-c859-11ec-8cff-33b059f4c1b7_story.html

More background here

 

[editor]

Putin rn...
View attachment 321505

 

[Dystopiary]

No idea what the text says obvs.

ruscg_edinburgh I, the Consul General of Russia in Edinburgh, Yakovlev A. And., I categorically condemn the behavior of the special military operation of the Russian Armed Forces against the sovereign, independent state of Ukraine. I fully support any assistance to Ukraine Armed Forces from EU countries.

 

[MrSki]

Shame.

 

[existentialist]

Shame.

It is beginning to look like this didn't happen. There's a few "interesting" things going on (a big rush of 30 ambulances in Sevastopol), and it may be that some kind of event has occurred, but I think we'd better be prepared for the possibility that the ship wasn't sunk, or maybe even damaged.

But there's always next time...

 

[frogwoman]

Russia is killing Mariupol soldiers as they try to evacuate Azovstal, fighters warn

Russian forces have targeted Ukrainian troops helping to rescue civilians trapped in the city of Mariupol, the besieged soldiers say. The incident is reported

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[frogwoman]

Inside Ukraine’s Besieged Azovstal Steel Plant: Siphoning Fuel, Singing Songs and Surviving the Night

 

[frogwoman]

Whatever they can or can't do, breaking up demonstrations and forcibly conscripting those who disagrees with government policy suggests that they are not doing as much as they could.

The Russians want to label as Nazis, and then torture or murder those still in Mariupol and the Ukrainian regime sees that as a propaganda victory.

It's not a propaganda victory though. Prokopenko was critical of Zelensky last year (refusing to salute him for instance) and the Ukrainian government said weeks ago that the soldiers could surrender iirc. If the Ukrainian government can't (or indeed won't) save them it's not a propaganda victory, it's pretty much the opposite.

Mariupol civilians trapped in Azovstal being exterminated by Russia, …

archived 6 May 2022 09:09:44 UTC

archive.ph

Palamar, speaking in a video posted online, made a direct appeal to the international community and to President Zelensky to intervene to save hundreds of injured soldiers “who are dying in pain because of a lack of treatment”.

 

[existentialist]

It may be that the +1 on the Ukrainian list of Russian losses refers to this landing craft, that was hit by a Bayraktar drone yesterday off Snake Island.

 

[nogojones]

It may be that the +1 on the Ukrainian list of Russian losses refers to this landing craft, that was hit by a Bayraktar drone yesterday off Snake Island.

I much prefer it when they use Crazy Frog over some bland techouse

 

[existentialist]

I much prefer it when they use Crazy Frog over some bland techouse

Oh, I never even turned on the sound!

 

[Sue]

ruscg_edinburgh I, the Consul General of Russia in Edinburgh, Yakovlev A. And., I categorically condemn the behavior of the special military operation of the Russian Armed Forces against the sovereign, independent state of Ukraine. I fully support any assistance to Ukraine Armed Forces from EU countries.

Siberia for A Yakovlev if they ever go back to Russia.

 

[Dogsauce]

Siberia for A Yakovlev if they ever go back to Russia.

Are they not at least going to employ the ‘I was hacked’ excuse? Which is quite possible.

 

[Dogsauce]

It may be that the +1 on the Ukrainian list of Russian losses refers to this landing craft, that was hit by a Bayraktar drone yesterday off Snake Island.

The Bayraktars seem to be attacking with impunity in that area, the loss of the Moskva and it’s long-range air defences is almost certainly a factor. They can shoot from quite some distance away, and for targeting/intel the cameras have a passable resolution from over 100km away. Hope the thing that went bang on the landing craft was the replacement air defence equipment for the stuff they blew up a couple of days ago. Looked like a big secondary explosion so either munitions or fuel.

ETA: someone had identified the destroyed cargo as a TOR surface-to-air missile system, to replace that recently blown up. Which is nice.

 

[The39thStep]

It's not a propaganda victory though. Prokopenko was critical of Zelensky last year (refusing to salute him for instance) and the Ukrainian government said weeks ago that the soldiers could surrender iirc. If the Ukrainian government can't (or indeed won't) save them it's not a propaganda victory, it's pretty much the opposite.

Mariupol civilians trapped in Azovstal being exterminated by Russia, …

archived 6 May 2022 09:09:44 UTC

archive.ph

The Times article though quotes the Azov Commander as saying they are carrying out the order to defend

 

[T & P]

Another blow to Russia’s military hardware prowess and pride, as one of their new and advanced T-90M tanks, deployed with fanfare for the first time a few days ago, has been confirmed destroyed

Russia Just Lost Its Most Advanced Operational Tank In Ukraine

The first confirmed loss of Russia's most advanced operational tank is another blow to the Russian Army's eroded image.

www.thedrive.com

On another website it was claimed a Javelin did it.

 

[Chz]

It's still just a T-72 with a rather impressive set of bolt on upgrades. In some ways less advanced than the T-80 they had to stop making because the factory was in Ukraine. I don't find it at all surprising that it's vulnerable to a top attack weapon, since nearly every tank on Earth is.

 

[Supine]

Could someone paywall bust this article please?

Russia’s army is in a woeful state

The fiasco in Ukraine could be a reflection of a bad strategy or a poor fighting force

www.economist.com

 

[strung out]

Could someone paywall bust this article please?

Russia’s army is in a woeful state

The fiasco in Ukraine could be a reflection of a bad strategy or a poor fighting force

www.economist.com

Here:

Russia’s army is in a woeful state | The Economist

archived 6 May 2022 10:20:09 UTC

archive.ph

Also, if you go to archive.ph and paste the URL in you can do it yourself.