Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[ohmyliver]

It’s the 1970’s all over again.

I was trying to use that phrase ironically, because of its heavy use by right wing nut jobs during the Cold War.

 

[hitmouse]

Fwiw, not to just end up posting the whole contents of the Crimethinc twitter feed here, but:


Any Russian-speakers who can translate those? I recognise the "No troops to Donbass" one, dunno the others though. ETA: Ah, I think the graff with the red/black star and circle-A is your classic "no war but class war".

As I understand it, Russia has offices in London, Edinburgh and Manchester:

The Embassy of the Russian Federation to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

www.rusemb.org.uk

Contact Us - Consulate General of the Russian Federation in Edinburgh, the United Kingdom

The Embassy of the Russian Federation to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

rusemb.org.uk

 

[krink]

I'm busy deleting people off twitter. Example a pro Putin twitter loon from the UK was saying today that Ukraine kind of deserve it anyway for crimes against Jews in ww2. Presumably, hell be urging Russia into Germany next. I've fucked him off now and plenty more. I can't believe there's still this many of them.

 

[ruffneck23]

. wrong thread

 

[MickiQ]

. wrong thread

every cloud eh? Let's hope he's lost loads.

 

[ruffneck23]

every cloud eh? Let's hope he's lost loads.

Ive bunged into the Ress Mogg thread as it's better there.

But yes silver linings and all that.

 

[SpookyFrank]

UK is and have been for ages. Not sure about the US.

The US are supplying arms to Ukraine via proxies like Estonia IIRC.

E2a: Or they're giving the green light for american arms to be sold on to Ukraine as a third party.

 

[elbows]

One really depressing thing this century is there is absolutely no comeuppance for cunts anywhere ever. Nobody strung up by their feet from balconies or defeated and humiliated. Even Trump’s removal felt hollow and temporary. Where’s the optimism? Dirty pocket-stuffing oligarchs running the world both east and west and fuck all anyone can do about it lest they be crushed.

I wouldnt go quite that far, there was footage of several very dead long-term dictators as a result of the arab spring. Not that the ultimate results of such uprisings have been in any way satisfactory so far.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Let’s see but if this is true, people are saying yeah yeah putin is a big baddie but we still want to sell Gucci handbags to all his friends wives.
View attachment 311645

Imagine thinking the important thing right now is to keep shifting diamonds.

 

[bimble]

Somebody is posting photos of (he says) Russian prisoners of war taken by the Ukrainian army, they look like teenagers standing in a forest.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Fwiw, not to just end up posting the whole contents of the Crimethinc twitter feed here, but:


Any Russian-speakers who can translate those? I recognise the "No troops to Donbass" one, dunno the others though.

Top left: no war but class war.

Bottom right: are you willing to give a 13th/13%(?) of your wages to pay for the invasion of Donbass?

 

[spitfire]

Unbelievable scenes. Next to a fucking Unilever factory. We're so used to seeing this in countries that don't look like "here" that this is utterly mind blowing. For me anyway.

 

[elbows]

There seems to be very few reports of Ukrainian resistance so far, apart from the claim of downing five planes. kebabking - is this normal at this point in the game, or a sign of how it's going to play out in general?

I wouldnt be shocked if it was all over very quickly, but thats not a prediction of what will actually happen, just that it is one of the plausible outcomes.

 

[The39thStep]

I bet Paul Mason's call to reform and democratise NATO, presumably into some form of workers/popular front militia , to 'deter further Russian conventional aggression.' took Putin by surprise

 

[Aladdin]

https://mobile.twitter.com/home

This is awful.

At this stage the best outcome is...he puts in a new puppet government in Ukraine and withdraws troops wirhin 2 weeks.

Worst outcome...Putin keeps going and pushes on into other countries on its borders...the west gets involved in fighting and Putin responds by shelling major European cities....and we are hurled into a war in Europe with the potential for nuclear warheads being deployed.


I regret more than anything that I believed Putin would not invade. I really hoped this would not happen. I was teaching English to Russians from all over Russia in the 90s. Many were from Ukraine. We became friends. The people of both countries are as close in many ways and it's heartbreaking that Putin has done this to ALL of them.

Putin has put his historic reputation top of his agenda.
I sincerely hope that his own generals turn on him. I sincerely hope that he is a dead man walking.

 

[ska invita]

At this stage the best outcome is...he puts in a new puppet government in Ukraine and withdraws troops wirhin 2 weeks.
Worst outcome...Putin keeps going and pushes on into other countries on its borders

Surely its a case of your "best outcome". This is a "regime change".

 

[elbows]

This is the point the Estonian PM made in her interview with the FT last week - that western leaders make the mistake of viewing Putin through the prism of a democratic country. "You say that it's going to be super-expensive for Russia to have a war... [Putin] doesn't care. He's not up for elections."

That analysis is an error in itself, because it assumes the West actually thought they could deter Putin, as opposed to simply making a show of 'standing up to him' without actually believing they had a reasonable prospect of halting his plans for Ukraine.

ie 'pious noises off' that Orwell spoke about in a different time.

 

[spitfire]

Unbelievable scenes. Next to a fucking Unilever factory. We're so used to seeing this in countries that don't look like "here" that this is utterly mind blowing. For me anyway.

Same twitter poster has suggested the helicopters are taking the airport for ground forces to be airlifted in to take Kiev.

 

[The39thStep]

Latest Chinese statement as well as vacillating about "complex factors" does specifically reiterate "consistent support for national sovereignty and territorial integrity" but tenor of news reports gives undue credence to Russian claims. Tacit complicty rather than open support.

The Portuguese Communist Party statement doesn't give a fuck about about 'complex factors'

The PCP condemns the escalation of the confrontation promoted by the United States and NATO against Russia. An escalation which, taking place at the military, economic and political levels, and being supported by a fierce campaign of disinformation, constitutes a serious threat to peace.

Aggressive US and NATO action has intensified in recent weeks, with the deployment of more military assets and contingents in Eastern Europe - including military support to Ukraine - accompanied by the threat of imposing new economic sanctions on Russia.

Particularly serious is the inclusion of Ukraine in the aggressive strategy of imperialism, implemented after the 2014 coup, which was promoted by the United States, NATO and the EU, in resorting to fascist groups, and led to the imposition of a xenophobic and warmongering regime, whose violent action is responsible for the exacerbation of fractures and divisions and the outbreak of war in this country.

Bearing in mind the events that have taken place since 2014, the PCP warns against the danger of provocative actions, encouraged by the support of the United States and NATO, against the Russian-speaking populations of Donbass, their rights and their aspirations.

It cannot be ignored that the Ukrainian regime not only does not respect the Minsk agreements, preventing the materialization of a political solution to the conflict in the Donbass, but is also responsible for constant violations of the ceasefire and concentration mass of military forces next to the demarcation line, threatening to launch large-scale violent action in this region - a threat which has led to the deployment of Russian military forces on its own territory, in the area along the border with Ukraine.

The PCP underlines that the current situation cannot be dissociated from the continuous expansion of NATO which, tearing up the commitments made during the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact and the end of the Soviet Union, is advancing more and more more towards Eastern Europe, aiming to besiege Russia.

The PCP points out that it was the United States, NATO and the EU that launched the wars against Yugoslavia (1999), Afghanistan (2001) or Libya (2011), being responsible for their brutal legacy of death, suffering and destruction. It is the United States, NATO and the EU that fuel the arms race and are responsible for more than 60% of military spending worldwide, more than ten times more than Russia's military spending. It is the United States which, with the instrumentalization of NATO, promotes warlike alliances and partnerships, has a dense network of military bases distributed throughout the world and increases the installation of means of warfare, including including nuclear, always closer to the borders of the countries than they want to submit to their interests. It was the United States, with the support of NATO, that unilaterally broke important disarmament agreements, such as treaties on missile defense and short- and medium-range nuclear forces. It is the United States and NATO who cynically present the military exercises that Russia is carrying out on its own territory as a threat, while they are the ones who systematically carry out military exercises thousands of kilometers from their borders and carry out constant actions of pressure, interference and aggression against sovereign countries. It is the US, NATO and the EU that trivialize threats and blackmail and impose sanctions and blockades, openly defying the UN Charter and international law.

Reality shows that the United States spares no means to try to counter its relative decline, in the context of the structural crisis of capitalism and the profound process of rearrangement of forces which continues at the world level.

The escalation of confrontation promoted by the United States is, at the same time, a dangerous diversion in view of the increase in internal problems, as well as inter-imperialist contradictions, as demonstrated by the pressures they exert on the EU, in particular on Germany, concerning energy and, in particular, the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline. United and NATO.

It is reprehensible that the Portuguese Government, instead of intervening to help de-escalate the situation and facilitate a negotiated solution, is inserting itself into the dynamic that is fueling the climate of tension with the adoption of positions and measures dictated by US and NATO strategy.

In order to defend the interests and aspirations of the Portuguese people and of the peoples of the world, Portugal must not align itself, as is happening, with the North American and Atlanticist strategy of tension, which is at the root of the degradation of the international situation. To begin with, Portugal must refuse to involve Portuguese soldiers in the escalating confrontation that is underway.

Portugal must work for the peaceful solution of international conflicts, for disarmament, for peace, helping to put an end to the escalation of confrontation and promoting a process of dialogue with a view to promoting security in Europe, in the respect for the principles of the Constitution of the Portuguese Republic, the Charter of the United Nations and the Final Act of the Helsinki Conference.

The PCP calls for the development of the struggle against the escalation of confrontation, aggression and interference by imperialism, against the enlargement of NATO and its dissolution, against the militarization of the European Union, for peace and disarmament.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Russia can compete in Eurovision despite Ukraine invasion, organisers say

It comes after the act chosen to represent Ukraine in Turin withdrew over a reported 2015 visit to Russia-occupied Crimea.

www.aol.co.uk

Phew. That's okay then.

 

[spitfire]

Just popped on to Flight Radar 24 to track my parents flying in from Dublin and found this quite striking.

 

[SpookyFrank]

At this stage the best outcome is...he puts in a new puppet government in Ukraine and withdraws troops wirhin 2 weeks.

This may well be his plan. Make a relatively brief assault look like the best option, then claim the moral high ground for having shown such restraint. Also allows all the other countries to say ha, look we told him he can't get Sky Sports any more and that made him change his ways. Pats on the back for all concerned, just don't mention the dead.

 

[elbows]

putin's popularity has collapsed due to covid. a mate said that his popularity (for his largely older support base) rests upon being able to provide security and stability, and ... well ...

Yes over a million excess deaths since the pandemic began would be expected to weigh heavily on minds.

Some attempts to present a simplistic picture of Russian public sentiments suggests that many Russians did not really expect this escalation, but that the shadow of the 'spectre of NATO' looms large over the direction of travel that opinions take after that.

 

[RD2003]

Unbelievable scenes. Next to a fucking Unilever factory. We're so used to seeing this in countries that don't look like "here" that this is utterly mind blowing. For me anyway.

If only this sort of thing could be reserved for dark-skinned people.

 

[spitfire]

If only this sort of thing could be reserved for dark-skinned people.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.

 

[RainbowTown]

Europe 2022. Edging closer and closer towards the precipice.

 

[Spymaster]

Johnson just called Putin a dictator.

 

[Pickman's model]

View attachment 311666

Europe 2022. Edging closer and closer towards the precipice.

yes, europe's the elephant in that cartoon

 

[Pickman's model]

Johnson just called Putin a dictator.

the swine

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Johnson just called Putin a dictator.

Has Putin called off the attack in response yet?