maomao
普費斯
What do you want 'the west' to do and who is 'the west' in this case. Ideally any reaction would come from the UN.
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
I think it’s his nutjob website. There’s a whole little nexus of ‘anti-imperialists’, like Aaron Mate pushing various lines through there about Nazis, false flags, the CIA, bio weapons (any justification will do) laughing at notions of Ukranian sovereignty. The odd thing is this outlook is utterly imperialist in itself. Eastern Europe’s struggles are not a serious proposition compared to spats between US liberals and anti-imperialists.As if a few hundred extra deaths are going to trigger western military intervention, and quoting that nutjob website.
One of the weirdest things they do is attribute all 14,000 deaths in the Dombas since 2014 to Ukraine as if only one side was fighting a nasty civil war and the Russian backed insurgents had no backing. You don’t have any romantic view of the Ukrainian State to see what nonsense this is.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the decision - widely announced weeks back - that nato countries would not go to war with russia over ukraine. since obama baulked at doing anything to assad about the use of chemical weapons, red lines have fallen out of popularity. you might mean a different thing from nato by 'the west', perhaps you could explain it
Send in troops and aircraft. The UN has been completely silent throughout this so it'll need to be Nato. I appreciate they don't want to risk nuclear war but this has to fucking stop, somehow. Biden's unscripted comment about regime change in Russia obvs came from the heart and was bizarrely denied afterwards but I sincerely hope its an option that's being considered.
maomao
普費斯
So you want Nato to bomb Moscow.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh the last war the us waged for regime change was a massive success. as maomao says you want to see more cities attacked if not destroyed. that's a really good idea
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I want NATO to bomb George Galloway's house tbh. If only just so we can all shout 'false flag' at his tattered corpse.
elbows
Well-Known Member
There isnt one.
There are a few acts Russia could indulge in (eg chemical, nuclear) which might cause a further escalation but the sorts of atrocities being uncovered at the moment are likely not on that list and even if they were, the possible escalation options still dont bring an immediate halt to the horror.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I don't think Nato seeping in to help push Russia out of Ukraine would result in. Unclear war. I'm petty sure them bombing Moscow to try and force regime change would.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
when he was mp for bethnal green and bow he was reported to sleep in a different place every night pretty much. so i don't think you'd stand much chance of getting him
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
We could then claim it was a Russian false flag operation.
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
I can't believe that someone like Biden, who's spent the past 40 years neck-deep in politics, makes "oopsies" in his speeches. He's saying what he thinks, which is both refreshing and horrifying in equal measures.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
I can't see Russia invading anywhere else in the foreseeable future, and as uncomfortable it is watching this unfold, I don't think NATO will get involved, certain NATO countries may do at some point, possibly under a 'peace keeping' umbrella.
elbows
Well-Known Member
His political career features a giant collection of gaffes though. Hera are a sample of them which the Guardian went on about in 2019, which demonstrates he can give the likes of Dubya a run for his money:
'I am a gaffe machine': a history of Joe Biden's biggest blunders
As the former vice-president enters a crowded 2020 field, will his well-documented past of confusing and embarrassing moments work against him?
Includes the fact he abandoned a presidential bid in 1988 when caught plagiarising Neil Kinnock!
When he puts his foot in it these days, it can just be down to that, or a stronger version of it due to advancing age (eg he called the Ukrainians Iranians in his state of the union speech). But yes, we are also told that he has a famous temper and sometimes really likes to say what he is actually thinking rather than being diplomatic.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Belarus could yet be fully integrated into the Russian Federation. Ditto South Ossetia, Abkhazia. Transnistria possibly. That lot wouldn't necessarily involve any or much fighting. Putin could still stir up trouble with Russian speaking minorities in the Baltic states. Or demand overland access to Kaliningrad.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Learn from the best eh
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
I meant it along the lines that you can slip up and call Ukrainians Iranians or forget whether someone's mother or father died. Happens to all of us, though some more than others.His political career features a giant collection of gaffes though. Hera are a sample of them which the Guardian went on about in 2019, which demonstrates he can give the likes of Dubya a run for his money:
'I am a gaffe machine': a history of Joe Biden's biggest blunders
As the former vice-president enters a crowded 2020 field, will his well-documented past of confusing and embarrassing moments work against him?www.theguardian.com
Includes the fact he abandoned a presidential bid in 1988 when caught plagiarising Neil Kinnock!
When he puts his foot in it these days, it can just be down to that, or a stronger version of it due to advancing age (eg he called the Ukrainians Iranians in his state of the union speech). But yes, we are also told that he has a famous temper and sometimes really likes to say what he is actually thinking rather than being diplomatic.
You can't "slip up" and call for regime change in Russia. Or Iraq, or Libya, or wherever.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Learn from the best eh
Actually, I think that unless something is done, in a few years we'll see the same thing all over again. That seems to be the pattern - a bit like a spoilt teenager pushing boundaries, a little more each time.
Indeliblelink
\......👁&👁......./
I note in the list of atrocities on the Human Rights Watch page, one of the victims mentions a "long" building the Russians were using as a headquarters in Bucha and where she witnessed an execution. HRW link to a Deliveri building, it's also on Yablunkska St only a few 100 meters from where the video of bodies lying in the street was filmed.
I saw some graffitti from Bucha yesterday that was interesting. It was simply the figures 1488.
I looked it up because I thought it was a pretty weird thing for Russian troops to want to spray anywhere. What historical event could it refer to? However, 1488 doesn't seem particularly relevant to either Russia or Ukraine.
1488 is, however, a neo-nazi slogan, it seems.
I looked it up because I thought it was a pretty weird thing for Russian troops to want to spray anywhere. What historical event could it refer to? However, 1488 doesn't seem particularly relevant to either Russia or Ukraine.
1488 is, however, a neo-nazi slogan, it seems.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh 14 for the 14 words and 88 is hh, which ought to be self-explanatory: heil hitler
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
14 words, and 88.
dilute micro
esse quam videri
Don't think so. I think the best option is to let him grind his army down in Ukraine and/or to support Ukraine in expelling Russia from Donbass and Crimea. Without Ukraine, Russia can't move on southern Europe at least. It would stymie his aggression. And it would likely halt it for the end of his days. The worry that the next leader would be worse or have the same goal is yet to be proved and is worth the gamble. I think it's very unlikely. The reality of watching your army get the shit kicked out of it in Ukraine will sink in to everyone else.
The video I posted in the other thread has some good points. It probably not a good idea to let Russia go toe to toe with US/NATO. Russia will get decimated in a matter of weeks and that would leave Putin afraid of an invasion with only nukes to defend Russia with.
Flavour
hang the bankers
Think you'll find that graffiti was there long before the Russian invasion -- Nazis innit.
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