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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24


You say Collateral Damage I say Hegemony and War Crimes. The numbers of civilian deaths as a result of the Iraq war speak for themselves and if it wasn't for the foreign policy of the UK and the US we might not be in the shitstorm we're in now. It's why Russia and China and many others consider the west to be all their arse.

Where's their shock and awe now the stakes are higher?
Yet to come, I fear...
 

I was looking at the Bucha town council website, most of it is mundane shit like town meetings/events, awrd ceremonies, festivals, info on municipal services, photos of the town etc. The recent photos are all about the war :( for some reason I found pictures of how it looked before almost more upsetting. Just heard that Odesa is having air strikes on it too, I have happy memories of the trip I took there in 2010 :(
 
For similar reasons it seems to trigger me more seeing things like the cyclist that was just shot riding along than the obvious executions, just the idea of someone going about their business and being ended pointlessly. Not sure why this is.

tbh the Bucha stuff is tame compared to some of the stuff I’ve seen on Twitter from Mariopul. Semi-naked bodies just stacked up like waste at the roadside, just looks like concentration camp footage.

I hate the feeling of powerlessness and the almost certainty that nobody culpable will pay for it. Even the term ‘war crimes‘ bothers me, like war is something lawful that can be regulated, made orderly. It’s all fucking crime.
 
The chechen fighters are being portrayed similar to the Ghurkhas were in the Falklands.
But its not working the Ukarinans aren't terrified just angry and the Chechens are a warlords private milita and can't back up there image.
 
I hate the feeling of powerlessness and the almost certainty that nobody culpable will pay for it. Even the term ‘war crimes‘ bothers me, like war is something lawful that can be regulated, made orderly. It’s all fucking crime.
Yes this, i feel the same about the term war crimes too. I've been hiding behind the sofa and looking away, which is shameful but i cant handle it, and i know there'll be more and more of it coming out. trying to make sense of this level of brutality & nihilism is impossible so all i get is despair, which is no use to anyone.
 
The absolute state of these bastards. :mad:

Russia’s foreign ministry said that footage of dead civilians in the Ukrainian town of Bucha had been “ordered” by the United States as part of a plot to blame Russia.

“Who are the masters of provocation? Of course the United States and Nato,” ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said in an interview on state television late on Sunday, Reuters reports. Zakharova said the immediate Western outcry over the images of dead civilians indicated the story had been part of a plan to sully Russia’s reputation.

“In this case, it seems to me that the fact that these statements (about Russia) were made in the first minutes after these materials appeared leaves no doubt as to who ‘ordered’ this story.” Zakharova offered no evidence to back these claims. LINK
 
It became possible as has already been observed because they got away with it in Chechnya and Syria and no-one who could, did anything to stop it.
That's not an answer, unless you think everyone is a rabid sadist and rapist most of us just haven't had a chance to indulge in it. But this is probably not for this thread which is about this specific war of horrors.
 
what is the answer to that question Zelensky asks in his video, how did this become possible? I want to believe it's something to do with putin or that the soldiers in the Russian army are uniquely damaged people but idk.
My first thoughts were of it being frustrated troops seeing themselves now retreating and then responding out of spite. The larger the numbers of civilian dead, the more likely it involves higher ranking officers. I'm not sure we'll ever know with Putin's iron curtain. Even a regime change won't guarantee the new bosses would see it as beneficial to hold anyone accountable. Maybe they will, though. Maybe it could be a way for them to gain trust with the West again.
 
That's not an answer, unless you think everyone is a rabid sadist and rapist most of us just haven't had a chance to indulge in it. But this is probably not for this thread which is about this specific war of horrors.

Of course it's an answer. It's not just people that have a character, institutions have them too. And the institution of the Russian armed forces has brutality built into its character at every level. If Russian soldiers are broken, it's because the army made them way. Some people who were already sadists and monsters are also likely to be attracted to such an institution.
 
That's not an answer, unless you think everyone is a rabid sadist and rapist most of us just haven't had a chance to indulge in it. But this is probably not for this thread which is about this specific war of horrors.
That is not what I meant at all. :confused: i was thinking more along the lines of the wholesale destruction of civilian infrastructure and the attendant loss of civilian lives which has led up to this point. The Russian leadership/military has become increasingly emboldened by a lack of any meaningful response to their previous actions - even drastically punitive sanctions may have had some sort of effect. I will concede that it does not fully explain the atrocities we have seen reported over the last few days though.
 
it's possible that the rhetoric around "denazification" took hold inside the minds of soldiers, so that if everyone including civilians resisted their liberation then everyone is infected with nazism and so they're just nazis, not normal women, not human, something like that.
 
what is the answer to that question Zelensky asks in his video, how did this become possible? things like this Ukraine: Apparent War Crimes in Russia-Controlled Areas. I want to believe it's something to do with putin or that the soldiers in the Russian army are uniquely damaged people but idk.
It happened the same way it happened during the collapse of Yugoslavia, and in the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, and the countless British and French imperial ventures.
 
what is the answer to that question Zelensky asks in his video, how did this become possible? things like this Ukraine: Apparent War Crimes in Russia-Controlled Areas. I want to believe it's something to do with putin or that the soldiers in the Russian army are uniquely damaged people but idk.

Haven't we seen this in a thousand wars? Brutalised young men who have killed and seen their friends killed are given absolute power over a civilian population and atrocities ensue.
 
yeah, i'm sorry, i do know its nothing new or unique, its just idk the need to try to find a reason that isn't just well humans given half a chance are always monsters. Question was not appropriate for thread though.
 
Russian conscription is horrible senior conscripts are expected to bully the junior ones Dedovshchina - Wikipedia.
even has a term for it.
So poor morale and discipline expose to the horrors of combat with little command and control lack of food and fuel then tell the troops who were told initially it was an exercise and they were liberating people to withdraw.
It becomes war crimes Oclock.
The people who should stop it are either dead or don't know it's happening Russian comms are terrible that's why generals are being killed they were on the front line to try to get control. Too busy trying to survive or don't care :mad:
 
it's possible that the rhetoric around "denazification" took hold inside the minds of soldiers, so that if everyone including civilians resisted their liberation then everyone is infected with nazism and so they're just nazis, not normal women, not human, something like that.
Sorry but this is just people doing what people do. Particular armies and wars may be "better" or worse but all armies all wars are this to one extent or another.
 
it's possible that the rhetoric around "denazification" took hold inside the minds of soldiers, so that if everyone including civilians resisted their liberation then everyone is infected with nazism and so they're just nazis, not normal women, not human, something like that.
I think that's exactly what's happened with some of them tbh, the nazi stuff is also for domestic consumption as well.

But its also more or less made for people outside Russia or Ukraine to look at and think ah well maybe they ARE all nazis.
 
I'd just read about this when I heard and thought it was a revenge attack as news/warnings spread amongst the troops. Although poisoned with alcohol I take with a pinch of salt.

Might mean methanol, after all it's very easily available.

e2a: I did not read that post properly.
 
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I'd just read about this when I heard and thought it was a revenge attack as news/warnings spread amongst the troops. Although poisoned with alcohol I take with a pinch of salt.
Yeah. It's the Ukrainian civilians fault those soldiers behaved barbarically.
 
I am extremely surprised that Mariupol has still not fallen. The conditions there must be horrific. There are lots of similar reports of unspeakable atrocities being committed by the Russian Army there. We may never know the full extent.
 
Sorry but this is just people doing what people do. Particular armies and wars may be "better" or worse but all armies all wars are this to one extent or another.
I am glad to have read a bit (see link above) about the fact that every Russian conscript will likely have been subjected to ritualised torture and abuse for a year, that it’s built into the system. Sexual abuse as well. That’s not the case for all people.
 
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