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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

RD2003 said:
An odd thing: the masturbation on here over the Ukrainian president, who represents everything so many posting regulars purport to hate. Even anarchists and revolutionary socialists seem to be rushing to embrace him. These are some curious times.

Still, I suppose it might have been like this in WW2. Tories loving Stalin etc. Except we are not in a war, even if some people are acting like we are.
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Well among other things leaders are symbols for all sorts of stuff, and at times of war the symbolism changes, becomes more simplistic as people focus on the battle at hand rather than the full realities of power and figureheads.
 
elbows said:
Well among other things leaders are symbols for all sorts of stuff, and at times of war the symbolism changes, becomes more simplistic as people focus on the battle at hand rather than the full realities of power and figureheads.
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Except that we are not at war. But bring on Churchill why not? Who, as everybody knows, ordered troops to fire on the striking miners,,, Does anybody on here think the Ukrainan president would be on the side of striking miners (except if they were striking against the (obnoxious) Putin regime? I mean, (and I wouldn't say this in real life) oh fucking really.
 
Raheem said:
And so I thought I'd point that out for you. Obvs.

Your characterisation of him as angling for chat shows and so on is more than a little cuntish, given that he has a fairly strong chance of hanging from a rope.
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So? He stuck his neck out in a precarious time (which he'd been led to believe by his big money western backers wasn't precarious).

He wouldn't be the first one to dangle. Or die in another, equally ghastly, way. Allende was a much better man.

The world is not a nice place.
 
RD2003 said:
Except that we are not at war. But bring on Churchill why not? Who, as everybody knows, ordered troops to fire on the striking miners,,, Does anybody on here think the Ukrainan president would be on the side of striking miners (except if they were striking against the (obnoxious) Putin regime? I mean, (and I wouldn't say this in real life) oh fucking really.
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Would he be on the side of striking miners? Fucks sake. Have a breather and a think.
 
RD2003 said:
Except that we are not at war. But bring on Churchill why not? Who, as everybody knows, ordered troops to fire on the striking miners,,, Does anybody on here think the Ukrainan president would be on the side of striking miners (except if they were striking against the (obnoxious) Putin regime? I mean, (and I wouldn't say this in real life) oh fucking really.
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The change in symbolism I describe does not only apply to our own figureheads when we are directly at war ourselves.

Plus I'm not exactly celebrating such changes in symbolism, I'm just acknowledging the phenomenon. Its always better to have a more nuanced sense of leaders, what they stand for, what they represent, but war tends to run roughshod over nuances. Add that to the long list of hideous aspects of war.
 
This is the reality, whether anybody wants to accept it or not: A neutrality deal with Russia would have meant almost nobody slaughtered. They could have had their Ukrainian capitalism (and electroral psuedo-choices) without war.

But no: it seems within our nature to want the glorious dead.
 
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RD2003 said:
This should be the final word actually: A deal with Russia would have meant almost nobody slaughtered. They could have had their Ukrainian capitalism (and electroral psuedo-choices) without war.

But no: it seems within our nature to want the glorious dead.
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I think you've nailed it there. The Ukrainians wanted their glorious dead. The stupid fucks. Nothing more be said, really.
 
Raheem said:
I think you've nailed it there. The Ukrainians wanted their glorious dead. The stupid fucks. Nothing more be said, really.
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Yes, daddy died in our war. Can't remember what it was about now exactly. But he died anyway... It was horrible.
 
Nobody (as long as we're still here) will remember what these people died for, and nobody will care, although there will be some memorials and annual tears. People wil still go on Facebook (or whatever the fuck it will be called by then.)

You know this.
 
RD2003 said:
Nobody (as long as we're still here) will remember what these people died for, and nobody will care, although there will be some memorials and annual tears. People wil still go on Facebook (or whatever the fuck it will be called by then.)

You know this.
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What the fuck are you going on about? Just fuck off. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 bloodstained roubles.
 
spring-peeper said:
Go away, you are messing up the thread!!!

Some of us just want to read, and it is difficult to follow with all your.......stuff!!!

eta: I'm not going to answer to you on this. Please, just go away.
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I'm fucking off to bed now anyway.
But do go ahead and clamour for more slaughter from the comfort of your bedrooms if it satisfies you.
 
The Guardian online headline just mentioned 'NATO gives green light to bombing'. Nothing about it in their update feed when I clicked on the link. Then two minutes later that part of the headline was removed. Weird.
 
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