Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[platinumsage]

Not going to look for this video but it doesn’t sound good for the Russians involved:

 

[strung out]

can anyone summarise who has taken the biggest losses?

It's not a complete list for obvious reasons, but they've put totals in red. Russia started with more I think, and their losses will also have been publicised more:

Russia - 614, of which: destroyed: 240, damaged: 8, abandoned: 138, captured: 227​

Ukraine - 193, of which: destroyed: 72, damaged: 4, abandoned: 44, captured: 73​

 

[Cid]

I disagree - I don't think there is any reason for them not to back this. If he is mad, the international condemnation weakens Russia to the point that they are more dependent on the PRC. If he isn't mad and is working to a plan that comes off, they stand to benefit from it too (in terms of weakening the Western countries, especially the US).

They've been talking about creating a multi-polar world for ages and this might be it; it might even be an attempt to remove the current superpower and replace it with another one (albeit this time a bloc rather than a single state).

The CCP has been focused on building soft power relationships for a while now... They have been treading a pretty careful line, pushing their influence through international development schemes (the belt and road initiatives), alongside cultural projection through Confucius institutes and other university programmes. They are also fully aware that their internal economic reforms are heavily dependent on maintaining their trade relationship with Europe. They had a developing relationship with Ukraine, I think both largest importer and exporter.

I think there is almost no advantage for the CCP in this situation. They clearly still see Russia as valuable, but it's equally apparent by their studied 'Pro Moscow neutrality' that that is somewhat conditional.

 

[platinumsage]

My sense is one of the tensions in the higher echelons is those who thought perhaps China's interests were best suited by a rules-based international order, hence finally coming into line with e.g. WTO stipulations despite some sacrifices of national interests and a mix of old school go your own way like Mao and even Deng who of course attacked Vietnam to tell them not to get too cosy with the Soviets and new hawks who think the country is big enough to make its own rules and force them on others where they can. Outcome of this will give a fillip to one side or the other.

Was surprised to see this earlier, perhpas even more surprised that China didn’t object loudly enough to make headlines over here:

 

[bimble]

He wants everyone to calm down and normalise relations, already.

 

[AverageJoe]

Most of this is too big for my tiny brain, but has there been any noise from countries outside the EU/Europe in terms of support or may?

I mean India, Africa, North and South Korea, Australia etc?

 

[dilute micro]

He wants everyone to calm down and normalise relations, already.

I bet he does. This is a good sign though. I'd tell him that along with him we want to see Russia crushed.

 

[MrCurry]

He wants everyone to calm down and normalise relations, already.

Maybe intended for Finnish and Swedish ears, as those countries seem to be heading towards NATO at present, which is the opposite of what Putin wants.

 

[A380]

I'm not going to bet that everybody will go their separate ways. I will bet that once it's on it stays on. Putin will have to build a big wall.

That’s Ok. Mexico will pay.

 

[planetgeli]

No ill intention towards my neighbours.

 

[editor]

Editor!

If you wish to report something, use the 'report this post' rather than showboating in the thread and disrupting it further. Any more of this kind of crap from anyone will be rewarded by a one day ban off this thread. No further discussion about this or any subsequent bans in this thread is permitted, although the feedback forum is set up for dealing with these kind of issues.
I strongly suggest that anyone thinks twice before contributing to any more off-topic/personal stuff. My patience is worn out.

 

[agricola]

Most of this is too big for my tiny brain, but has there been any noise from countries outside the EU/Europe in terms of support or may?

I mean India, Africa, North and South Korea, Australia etc?

Australia yes (I think), SK yes, India no, Africa mostly yes (moral support but not sanctions) but not SA.

 

[ska invita]

Most of this is too big for my tiny brain, but has there been any noise from countries outside the EU/Europe in terms of support or may?

I mean India, Africa, North and South Korea, Australia etc?

this was a UN effectively opinon poll which shows who stands where

self explanatory i think

 

[agricola]

He wants everyone to calm down and normalise relations, already.

The problem being of course he, and nearly all of his ministers / spokes-folk, said that about Ukraine.

 

[JimW]

If you wish to report something, use the 'report this post' rather than showboating in the thread and disrupting it further. Any more of this kind of crap from anyone will be rewarded by a one day ban off this thread. No further discussion about this or any subsequent bans in this thread is permitted, although the feedback forum is set up for dealing with these kind of issues.
I strongly suggest that anyone thinks twice before contributing to any more off-topic/personal stuff. My patience is worn out.

He was only joking, hence no actual report. Apparently that was frieda later, though not sure if that was him joking when he said that.

 

[AverageJoe]

Blimey.

A lot African countries abstaining.

 

[editor]

He was only joking, hence no actual report. Apparently that was frieda later, though not sure if that was him joking when he said that.

Stop it, FFS.

 

[Orang Utan]

Blimey.

A lot African countries abstaining.

From what?

 

[Cid]

Most of this is too big for my tiny brain, but has there been any noise from countries outside the EU/Europe in terms of support or may?

I mean India, Africa, North and South Korea, Australia etc?

India I just linked to a half hour Grand Tamasha podcast on the general history etc... Very short version - Cold war links, balance of power against china, elites like Russia, general opinion more sceptical. Also defence contracts. Result being neutrality with some criticism. US pressure may swing that somewhat, though threats of sanctions are probably not a great idea.

Most other countries have voted for UN resolutions condemning the occupation. Very few have voted with Russia (Syria, Belarus, Eritrea, DPRK), I think around 35 abstentions ranging from I think all central Asian countries to India, China, Vietnam. Kind of pans out as 'if country has major arms deals with Russia, expect abstention'. e2a: that last bit is overly reductive, obviously there's plenty of understandable other reasons wrapped up in that.

 

[cupid_stunt]

From what?

From the UN resolution to condemn Russia's invasion.

 

[Cid]

From what?

The UN resolution about 5 posts up that you'd see if you didn't rely exclusively on new posts.

 

[IC3D]

A lot of African countries abstained Inc SA.

 

[friedaweed]

I wasn't being serious.

I think this is why they're picking on you

 

[platinumsage]

The UN resolution about 5 posts up that you'd see if you didn't rely exclusively on new posts.

Also 27 pages back when it was last discussed

 

[planetgeli]

Blimey.

A lot African countries abstaining.

12 countries not even turning up, presumably having more important things to do.

But then you see things like this

Pro-Russia Sentiment Grows in Burkina Faso After Coup

Demonstrators celebrating the coup told VOA they would like to see more Russian involvement in the country

www.voanews.com

and you start to realise why some of them might not have been there.

 

[Ax^]

He wants everyone to calm down and normalise relations, already.

optics at home

"i'm trying to be the peacemaker"

easier to do when no one can argue against you

 

[A380]

I was wrong about the initial invasion, hope I’m wrong about what I think comes next:

Kiev encircled in three days to a week and bombarded for a week after that. Ukrainian regular forces in and around the city destroyed.

Puppet government installed by the end of March, Putin declares victory.

Continued asymmetrical warfare in eastern countryside, until the Ukrainian army gets degraded to the point they are an insurgency. Probably late April early May.

Massive, but violently repressed public protest in Russia.

Guerilla fighting / ‘terrorism’ for at least five years. With the West both assisting and continuing our economic attacks on Russia.

Attempts to depose Putin and his close circle made from this summer. But it’s mostly luck if they are successful or not.

Hope I’m wide of the mark.

 

[Ax^]

Blimey.

A lot African countries abstaining.

Russian investments spread across the globe

take eritera it has a massive investment for a russian miltary base

 

[LDC]

A lot of African countries abstained Inc SA.

As has been said for about the last 15 posts including a massive fucking image you unobservant thick cunt.

Do you ever contribute anything more useful here than a short sentence? Every single post of yours is basically a little snippet of idiocy.

 

[Orang Utan]

The UN resolution about 5 posts up that you'd see if you didn't rely exclusively on new posts.

It should have been put up here