discokermit
Well-Known Member
Im no expert on refugees but i would have thought safest bet is get to the border and sort it out from there.
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
Just an idle thought...
All this talk about NATO expanding to Russian borders is kind of illegitimate isn't it?
Why is Russia entitled to a buffer zone or sphere of influence? Brazil is just as big a power as Russia is but they aren't threatening to invade Uruguay if they dare get too close to Argentina.
Russia doesn't have the foundations to be a world power and threatening their neighbours with force is a big part of why they are a greatly diminished force. The US is about 2.5x the population of Russia, and maybe over 20x the economy, but Russia is still seeing themselves as a rival/peer. In fact they are much closer in population to Germany than they are to the US. Mexico and Japan are probably the most comparable countries. I think the delusion about Russia's status is also behind this miscalculation as he has assumed Russian might is so overwhelming compared to Ukraine, but it just isn't true anymore. Logisitics aside, this is not comparable in ambition to China occupying Taiwan - it's as ambitious as China occupying an area as populous as the US and Mexico combined. I think his ingrained assumptions about Russia's place in the world blinded him from seeing that.
The Soviet Union is gone and the days of Russian Empire are over and there is little chance of them returning in our lifetimes. I hope after this Russia has a reality check and comes to terms with being a normal country, not a great power. It has a choice of being the Canada of Europe or the North Korea of Europe. Letting go of imperial delusions and bitterness about the past is the way forward.
This might be a bit unrealistic, but I'd like to think, when Putin goes, that we have a kind of Marshall Plan to redevelop Russia. Just like the excessive punishment of Germany after WW1 led to WW2, the terrible treatment of Russia after the Soviet Union should not be repeated after what looks like could be a new humiliation.
All this talk about NATO expanding to Russian borders is kind of illegitimate isn't it?
Why is Russia entitled to a buffer zone or sphere of influence? Brazil is just as big a power as Russia is but they aren't threatening to invade Uruguay if they dare get too close to Argentina.
Russia doesn't have the foundations to be a world power and threatening their neighbours with force is a big part of why they are a greatly diminished force. The US is about 2.5x the population of Russia, and maybe over 20x the economy, but Russia is still seeing themselves as a rival/peer. In fact they are much closer in population to Germany than they are to the US. Mexico and Japan are probably the most comparable countries. I think the delusion about Russia's status is also behind this miscalculation as he has assumed Russian might is so overwhelming compared to Ukraine, but it just isn't true anymore. Logisitics aside, this is not comparable in ambition to China occupying Taiwan - it's as ambitious as China occupying an area as populous as the US and Mexico combined. I think his ingrained assumptions about Russia's place in the world blinded him from seeing that.
The Soviet Union is gone and the days of Russian Empire are over and there is little chance of them returning in our lifetimes. I hope after this Russia has a reality check and comes to terms with being a normal country, not a great power. It has a choice of being the Canada of Europe or the North Korea of Europe. Letting go of imperial delusions and bitterness about the past is the way forward.
This might be a bit unrealistic, but I'd like to think, when Putin goes, that we have a kind of Marshall Plan to redevelop Russia. Just like the excessive punishment of Germany after WW1 led to WW2, the terrible treatment of Russia after the Soviet Union should not be repeated after what looks like could be a new humiliation.
MrCurry
right after this urgent rest
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Based on previous tensions, he'll get Mark Miley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to call his Russian equivalent and have a "Mano-a-Mano' conversation to reiterate that whatever he learnt in staff college, and whatever Putin thinks, if Russia uses a nuke, the US will respond in kind - and that it won't be in Belarus...
Biden will think, like most who wish to deter the use of nukes - for US doctrine is that a 'controlled' nuke exchange is a fantasy, and that any use will eventually end up as a strategic exchange - that the way to get the other guy not to use his, is for him to see your finger on the trigger.
I would hazard a guess that the US is talking to the wider Russian state, not just Putin.
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
I reckon the 1965 programme "The War Game" was probably more disturbing than Threads. They didnt end up broadcasting it in 1965, it got a limited BFI release and then was finally shown on tv in the mid 1980's, when there were new political reasons to whip up such fears.
The War Game
The threat of thermonuclear destruction placed Britain’s civil defence plans, and the BBC, at the heart of public debates about the Cold War.www.bbc.com
We were shown “The War Game” at secondary school in 1972. We as spotty fourteen year olds were obviously upset by it. We received no comfort from our teachers by their “this could happen at some point in your lifetime “.
So to me it’s beyond worrying about. We went on marches, we protested but it still hangs over us.
I’m a miserable old bastard now though.
I have found, over the years this kind of reaction from minions to bosses is quite common.
Nylock
I hate 'these days'...
elbows
Well-Known Member
Its just their version of a stiff upper lip or a poker face. I dont think you'd take any greater comfort from the images if they looked excited or happy about it.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
At the demo in Trafalgar Square earlier. Fairly full. I'd say maybe three or four thousand people. I'm not great at judging crowd size.
Main action they were asking for was to 'protect our skies' - big banner saying to do that and 'we'll do the rest'. Lots of Ukrainian flags, of course, and a fair few Polish, Georgian and other flags I didn't recongnise. Plus a few Russians against the war. (And one bloke saying Jesus will soon return.) Lots of Putin go to hell and variants in English and Ukrainian. Plenty of solidarity across the former Eastern bloc. The mood was defiant and determined rather than angry, I would say – any anger was directed at Putin in particular rather than at Russians generally.
Main action they were asking for was to 'protect our skies' - big banner saying to do that and 'we'll do the rest'. Lots of Ukrainian flags, of course, and a fair few Polish, Georgian and other flags I didn't recongnise. Plus a few Russians against the war. (And one bloke saying Jesus will soon return.) Lots of Putin go to hell and variants in English and Ukrainian. Plenty of solidarity across the former Eastern bloc. The mood was defiant and determined rather than angry, I would say – any anger was directed at Putin in particular rather than at Russians generally.
Cid
Proper break this time
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elbows
Well-Known Member
The state of play at the end of world war two combined with the dawning of the nuclear age (and which countries were nuclear powers) rather fossilised the status of world powers to quite some extent, to put it mildly.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Cid
Proper break this time
No, I meant I haven't the faintest idea what half of that means.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
That'll be down to OFCOM.
bimble
floofy
Bloody hell look at him.
This was the scene zoomed out.
If he’s not ‘crazy’ then he’s got good reason to be scared of getting anywhere near his generals so which is it?
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Because no one watches RT, but lots of Russians watch BBC and listen to the World Service.
If we bin RT for little effect, we give Vlad reason to ban the BBC, both transmission and journalists - which would have a negative effect on the amount of 'real' news Russians get.
Excellent point.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I'm sure the Chinese will help them redevelop. At a very reasonable price.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
The "is vlad mad?" question is - IMO - more a case of "how mad is vlad" - I would definitely say he has a degree of paranoia, obsession, a detachment from reality and megalomania - all his recent actions suggest that. But to what extent?
I dont buy the "no - its his cold, ruthless logic at work" . So an increasingly desperate and isolated Putin openly threatening to use nukes definitely does put the shits up me - because I cant say with 100% certainty that he isn't batshit enough to do it.
And yeah - im finding it scarier than the cold war because you believed that both sides were rational actors doing game theory stuff - so post cuban missile crises we never got close to an escalating political crises that could have led to WW3/nuclear Armageddon. We didnt really know about the far too close comfort near accidents.
I dont buy the "no - its his cold, ruthless logic at work" . So an increasingly desperate and isolated Putin openly threatening to use nukes definitely does put the shits up me - because I cant say with 100% certainty that he isn't batshit enough to do it.
And yeah - im finding it scarier than the cold war because you believed that both sides were rational actors doing game theory stuff - so post cuban missile crises we never got close to an escalating political crises that could have led to WW3/nuclear Armageddon. We didnt really know about the far too close comfort near accidents.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you've not encountered richard nixon doing really mad things to shit up communists then i suspect Madman theory - Wikipedia
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