Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[tim]

You want the leaders of all those countries dead? Inc this guy?
“Cyril Ramaphosa, the South African president, who has also sought to play the role of mediator in the conflict, praised Moscow as a “valued ally” and friend “who supported us from the very beginning in the fight against apartheid”.

A former union leader who was a director of the Lonmin mine when cops murdered 34 strikers. He was, of course, exonerated

'Ramaphosa, a stalwart of the liberation struggle, was a Lonmin board member at the time and has been accused of encouraging the violent police action. But the report said: “The commission has found that it cannot be said Mr Ramaphosa was the cause of the massacre, and the accusations against him are groundless.”'

South African deputy president cleared over Marikana massacre

Cyril Ramaphosa, past director at Lonmin mine where 34 strikers were killed in 2012, exonerated but inquiry advised into police chief Riah Phiyega

www.google.com

 

[The39thStep]

There’s an awful lot of balancing acts with Turkey , both a NATO member and EU applicant , and Saudi Arabia , normally NATO and US supportive sniffing around BRICS .

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

There’s an awful lot of balancing acts with Turkey , both a NATO member and EU applicant , and Saudi Arabia , normally NATO and US supportive sniffing around BRICS .

I would have thought that Brazil wouldn't be so keen on the misogyny and homophobia so beloved of some of the existing and many of the potential members. If they drop out perhaps Iran can lend their initial to the group, of course with India already in there, go with Persia, replace the B with the P and they're good to go.

 

[TopCat]

A former union leader who was a director of the Lonmin mine when cops murdered 34 strikers. He was, of course, exonerated

'Ramaphosa, a stalwart of the liberation struggle, was a Lonmin board member at the time and has been accused of encouraging the violent police action. But the report said: “The commission has found that it cannot be said Mr Ramaphosa was the cause of the massacre, and the accusations against him are groundless.”'

South African deputy president cleared over Marikana massacre

Cyril Ramaphosa, past director at Lonmin mine where 34 strikers were killed in 2012, exonerated but inquiry advised into police chief Riah Phiyega

www.google.com

Do you want him dead was the question?

 

[tim]

Do you want him dead was the question?

No. I don't want anyone dead.

 

[Chz]

There’s an awful lot of balancing acts with Turkey , both a NATO member and EU applicant , and Saudi Arabia , normally NATO and US supportive sniffing around BRICS .

Turkey has been caught selling machine tools that they know are moving on to Russia, but no-one wants to say boo to Turkey. They're too important.

Puts the finger on the EU & USA for still sending them the chromium they need for new barrels and a bigger finger on Turkey for being the largest supplier of the vital Western machinery Russia requires for making barrels.

Artillery Barrel Production in russia: Structure, Importance, and Weak Points | Defense Express

russian forces need a lot of barrels for artillery guns to keep firing up 10,000 shots a day on average, the production of those has two vulnerable bottlenecks

en.defence-ua.com

 

[The39thStep]

Turkey has been caught selling machine tools that they know are moving on to Russia, but no-one wants to say boo to Turkey. They're too important.

Puts the finger on the EU & USA for still sending them the chromium they need for new barrels and a bigger finger on Turkey for being the largest supplier of the vital Western machinery Russia requires for making barrels.

Artillery Barrel Production in russia: Structure, Importance, and Weak Points | Defense Express

russian forces need a lot of barrels for artillery guns to keep firing up 10,000 shots a day on average, the production of those has two vulnerable bottlenecks

en.defence-ua.com

We've got spheres of influence wanting to keep them on their side and at the same time arms length. None of these blocs whether they be BRICS, NATO or the EU have a great track record of who they have as members, allies or who they side with at various points.

 

[kebabking]

There's two angles to this, and it doesn't just apply to Turkey - there are plenty of 'friends' who, on occasion, make you mutter FFS through gritted teeth.

Firstly, friends who are friends with people you don't like are often very useful middle men - they have influence where you don't - and they can often help you in a way that you can't achieve by yourself.

Secondly, there's 'if you think they're a pain in the tent, wait till you see them outside the tent'. You often see internet warriors proclaim that X or Y should be kicked out of NATO, or the EU, or the UN - but rarely do you see any thought about what will happen after this Glorious Purification of the Righteous Politics, and whether the behaviour is likely to improve or not.

There's a balance, but 'easy' fixes tend not to be easy in reality.

 

[redsquirrel]

Not really, I'm opposed to this war. If you want Russia to win or keep it's gains from the war because it's up against the west then you're a tankie.

As usual you are posting complete crap.
There are plenty of people/groups that would favour Russia over Ukraine that are not tankies. Assad and the Iranian regime may be vile but neither is Stalinist.

The horrible, crap 'anti-imperialism' that has led some to support, or downplay/equivocate the actions and harm done by, forces/groups that are opposed to NATO/US is shite but it does not have to be, and frequently isn't, tankie.

 

[Ax^]

supporting north Korea is a little tankie

 

[Dogsauce]

I’m guessing the North Koreans will just be used in Kursk to start with, which is kind of compatible with their ‘mutual defence’ agreement with Russia - if they’re not attacking Ukraine or located in Ukraine it will be harder for opponents to condemn their deployment. That would free up Russian troops to carry on the looting and sacking in Donbas etc.

 

[CH1]

I've just been watching the Lords debate on Ukraine live.
Lord Balfe (Conservative - but formerly a Labour MEP) was like Russia Today on relay. Talks immediately etc - with a very long speech saying why.
Lord Whitty (fomerly Blairite General Secretary of the Labour Party) was not much better
much the worst of the trio I've just watched was Lord Desai of Islington - apparently life member of Islington and Finsbury Labour Party - but resigned due to issues relating to Corbyn's alleged antisemitism.
Lord Desai started by congratulating the House on voting to go to war with Russian. [bad taste sarcasm it would seem]
Then went on to say Indian PM Modi went to the BRICS summit to meet Putin because non aligned countries were fed up having their assets confiscated.
He then went on to say that Narendra Modi was the only person in the workld who could sort Ukraine out, because he had met both Presidents.

I always knew American Senators tend to be barmy and/or senile - but today the Lords took the biscuit.
Lord Desai is 84.

BTW Lord Stevens of Birmingham (and Angell Ward Brixton) formerly head of NHS England gave a much more spirited speech about increasing the UK military budget - rather like he had increased the NHS budget I assume.

still on live on Watch BBC Parliament live - BBC iPlayer
not sure if you can do selective playback later

 

[editor]

I’m guessing the North Koreans will just be used in Kursk to start with, which is kind of compatible with their ‘mutual defence’ agreement with Russia - if they’re not attacking Ukraine or located in Ukraine it will be harder for opponents to condemn their deployment. That would free up Russian troops to carry on the looting and sacking in Donbas etc.

Yes, those Russian war crimes won't keep happening without enough soldiers to carry them out!

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Think about this; the North Koreans haven't fought any battles since 1953. The soldiers and officers have mostly never used a computer, if they have it's very basic and uses the basic intra-web. They have never seen or even heard of the www, don't use mobile phones, and are wholly unaware of drones and drone warfare. I'm sure they'll do just fine...poor sods.

 

[krtek a houby]

Think about this; the North Koreans haven't fought any battles since 1953. The soldiers and officers have mostly never used a computer, if they have it's very basic and uses the basic intra-web. They have never seen or even heard of the www, don't use mobile phones, and are wholly unaware of drones and drone warfare. I'm sure they'll do just fine...poor sods.

Maybe we can crowdfund them?

 

[teqniq]

Think about this; the North Koreans haven't fought any battles since 1953. The soldiers and officers have mostly never used a computer, if they have it's very basic and uses the basic intra-web. They have never seen or even heard of the www, don't use mobile phones, and are wholly unaware of drones and drone warfare. I'm sure they'll do just fine...poor sods.

I would not be so sure that the North Koreans are technologically illiterate:

The Lazarus heist: How North Korea almost pulled off a billion-dollar hack

In 2016 North Korean hackers planned a $1bn raid on Bangladesh's national bank and came within an inch of success. But how did they do it?

www.bbc.co.uk

2014 Sony Pictures hack - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Elpenor]

Think about this; the North Koreans haven't fought any battles since 1953. The soldiers and officers have mostly never used a computer, if they have it's very basic and uses the basic intra-web. They have never seen or even heard of the www, don't use mobile phones, and are wholly unaware of drones and drone warfare. I'm sure they'll do just fine...poor sods.

What’s the source for this? I’m interested to know more.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I would not be so sure that the North Koreans are technologically illiterate:

The Lazarus heist: How North Korea almost pulled off a billion-dollar hack

In 2016 North Korean hackers planned a $1bn raid on Bangladesh's national bank and came within an inch of success. But how did they do it?

www.bbc.co.uk

2014 Sony Pictures hack - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Kim won’t be sending his top hackers to fertilise the soils of the Russia/Ukraine border, cos they’re his main earner.

Interestingly, BB2 is in her 3rd of a cyber security degree, specialising in ethical hacking, she’s bored me rigid with NK’s exploits over the years, Sony Pictures was the fun one, people in LA couldn’t even use their vending machines to get a can of pop until Sony coughed up the dollar to Kim.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

What’s the source for this? I’m interested to know more.

What exactly is it that you’d like to know more about?

 

[PTK]

I’m guessing the North Koreans will just be used in Kursk to start with, which is kind of compatible with their ‘mutual defence’ agreement with Russia - if they’re not attacking Ukraine or located in Ukraine it will be harder for opponents to condemn their deployment. That would free up Russian troops to carry on the looting and sacking in Donbas etc.

Are the Russians looting and sacking Donbas?

 

[Elpenor]

What exactly is it that you’d like to know more about?

so no sources to share then, because your post was demonstrably Koryophobic imperialist lies.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

so no sources to share then, because your post was demonstrably Koryophobic imperialist lies.

OK, demonstrate the lies:

the North Koreans haven't fought any battles since 1953. The soldiers and officers have mostly never used a computer, if they have it's very basic and uses the basic intra-web. They have never seen or even heard of the www, don't use mobile phones, and are wholly unaware of drones and drone warfare.

Off you pop.

 

[Yossarian]

I don't think North Korean soldiers have any tech training but sounds like they might have extensive looting experience

Not surprisingly, around 60 percent of my company’s soldiers were malnourished and seriously starving. Around 30 percent went missing. That’s why stealing food and money from civilians was common.

The North Korean Army’s official name is the Korean People’s Army, but people call them the “Korean People’s enemy.” Soldiers would steal nearly everything from civilians. For example, in the autumn, my company's soldiers and I would take corn and rice from cooperative and private farms. We also stole livestock like pigs and goats that belonged to civilians and even took their clothing to exchange for food.

The lives of North Korea’s 'strongest soldier?s?'

“We have the greatest general and the strongest army! That’s why we will defeat the enemy!” This is what I heard every day when I was a soldier in the North Korean military. I saw and experienced hunger, tragic accidents and corrupt officers everywhere.

www.koreatimes.co.kr

 

[Elpenor]

OK, demonstrate the lies:

the North Koreans haven't fought any battles since 1953. The soldiers and officers have mostly never used a computer, if they have it's very basic and uses the basic intra-web. They have never seen or even heard of the www, don't use mobile phones, and are wholly unaware of drones and drone warfare.

Off you pop.

“They don’t use mobile phones”

Apart from the fact they do and have done for years.

https://www.38north.org/2022/11/twenty-years-of-mobile-communications-in-north-korea/

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

“They don’t use mobile phones”

Apart from the fact they do and have done for years.

https://www.38north.org/2022/11/twenty-years-of-mobile-communications-in-north-korea/

Ah yeah, the closed network, same as their intranet. Try calling one Elpenor and let us know how you get on.

Which of my other Koryophobic lies will you debunk next, edge of my seat here?

 

[Elpenor]

Ah yeah, the closed network, same as their intranet. Try calling one Elpenor and let us know how you get on.

Which of my other Koryophobic lies will you debunk next, edge of my seat here?

They’re still mobile phones. You said they don’t use them and they clearly do.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

They’re still mobile phones. You said they don’t use them and they clearly do.

Has Pickman's hijacked your account?

Will their mobiles work in Kursk? (mine will).

 

[Dogsauce]

Intelligence is now stating that NK gave Russia

Are the Russians looting and sacking Donbas?

on an industrial scale, it’s not just the much joked about washing machines and toilets, they’ve also stolen large farm machinery and an entire solar PV farm. It’s institutional theft.

 

[Elpenor]

Has Pickman's hijacked your account?

Will their mobiles work in Kursk? (mine will).

If they don’t then they’ll be able to use any other one given they’re commonplace in their motherland

When are you off to Kursk? Air logistics coordination role I assume

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

If they don’t then they’ll be able to use any other one given they’re commonplace in their motherland

Where will they get one that works in Kursk from?