Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[Pickman's model]

Not really, I'm opposed to this war. If you want Russia to win or keep it's gains from the war because it's up against the west then you're a tankie.

this supposes the moscow regime to be communist

 

[PTK]

i mist have missed the soviet intervention to remove the communist government in kabul. can you tell me more about it?

In April 1978 there was a military coup in Kabul. Army officers who were members of the Peoples Democratic Party of Afghanistan, (a Communist Party) removed the President. The USSR intervened in December 1979, and removed the PDPA President and replaced him with another member of the PDPA.

 

[Pickman's model]

In April 1978 there was a military coup in Kabul. Army officers who were members of the Peoples Democratic Party of Afghanistan, (a Communist Party) removed the President. The USSR intervened in December 1979, and removed the PDPA President and replaced him with another member of the PDPA.

that doesn't sound to me like 'removing the communist government in kabul'.

 

[PTK]

that doesn't sound to me like 'removing the communist government in kabul'.

Does it not? It is not that different from what happened in Czechoslovakia, but with more blood shed.

 

[rubbershoes]

How do the Nepalese units in the British Army cope, I wonder?

Gurkha officers speak Nepali

 

[Rimbaud]

What is a Tankie? It was someone who supported the Soviet military invasion of Czechoslavakia in 1968, to remove the Communist government of that country. It was then applied to those supported the Soviet military intervention in Afghanistan to remove the Communist government of that country. In both cases, the national sovereignty of another country was violated

That's the origin of the term, but common usage today is leftists who uncritically support any force perceived as anti-Western and downplay/deny/defend human rights abuses to that end.

Salivating over North Korea invading South Korea is pretty much as Tankie as it is possible to go.

 

[Pickman's model]

That's the origin of the term, but common usage today is leftists who uncritically support any force perceived as anti-Western and downplay/deny/defend human rights abuses to that end.

Salivating over North Korea invading South Korea is pretty much as Tankie as it is possible to go.

perhaps you should edit the wiki page to reflect your idiosyncratic take of the term Tankie - Wikipedia

 

[PTK]

That's the origin of the term, but common usage today is leftists who uncritically support any force perceived as anti-Western and downplay/deny/defend human rights abuses to that end.

Salivating over North Korea invading South Korea is pretty much as Tankie as it is possible to go.

"Common usage?" Pehaps amongst you and your friends.

 

[tim]

that doesn't sound to me like 'removing the communist government in kabul'.

Hafizullah Amin was a brutal and unpopular Stalinist. He had a photo of Stalin on his desk, so I think it's fair to use that term. The USSR organised his assassination because rhey feared rhat the regime was unstable. They tried to poison him twice. The first time he was revived by Soviet doctors who weren't on on the plot. The second time the carbonated Coca-Cola he was drinking helped dissipate the effects of the poison

40 Years After His Death, Hafizullah Amin Casts a Long Shadow in Afghanistan

40 years ago, the Soviet Union eliminated a communist rival from power in Afghanistan. Ever since, the country has prodded through a history of violence and political uncertainty.

thediplomat.com

Here is the Soviet explanation as to why his elimination was necessary.

Politbiuro Report on Afghanistan

Report on Events in Afghanistan on 27-28 December 1979. December 31, 1979 On December 12, 1979, the Soviet Politburo met and voted to intervene in the struggle for power in Afghanistan. On D…

soviethistory.msu.edu

 

[Pickman's model]

Hafizullah Amin was a brutal and unpopular Stalinist. He had a photo of Stalin on his desk, so I think it's fair to use that term. The USSR organised his assassination because rhey feared rhat the regime was unstable. They tried to poison him twice. The first time he was revived by Soviet doctors who weren't on on the plot. The second time the carbonated Coca-Cola he was drinking helped dissipate the effects of the poison

40 Years After His Death, Hafizullah Amin Casts a Long Shadow in Afghanistan

40 years ago, the Soviet Union eliminated a communist rival from power in Afghanistan. Ever since, the country has prodded through a history of violence and political uncertainty.

thediplomat.com

Here is the Soviet explanation as to why his elimination was necessary.

Politbiuro Report on Afghanistan

Report on Events in Afghanistan on 27-28 December 1979. December 31, 1979 On December 12, 1979, the Soviet Politburo met and voted to intervene in the struggle for power in Afghanistan. On D…

soviethistory.msu.edu

Most governments are composed of more than one person

 

[PTK]

Hafizullah Amin was a brutal and unpopular Stalinist. He had a photo of Stalin on his desk, so I think it's fair to use that term. The USSR organised his assassination because rhey feared rhat the regime was unstable. They tried to poison him twice. The first time he was revived by Soviet doctors who weren't on on the plot. The second time the carbonated Coca-Cola he was drinking helped dissipate the effects of the poison

40 Years After His Death, Hafizullah Amin Casts a Long Shadow in Afghanistan

40 years ago, the Soviet Union eliminated a communist rival from power in Afghanistan. Ever since, the country has prodded through a history of violence and political uncertainty.

thediplomat.com

Here is the Soviet explanation as to why his elimination was necessary.

Politbiuro Report on Afghanistan

Report on Events in Afghanistan on 27-28 December 1979. December 31, 1979 On December 12, 1979, the Soviet Politburo met and voted to intervene in the struggle for power in Afghanistan. On D…

soviethistory.msu.edu

How do we know he had photograph of Stalin on his desk?

 

[Chz]

perhaps you should edit the wiki page to reflect your idiosyncratic take of the term Tankie - Wikipedia

I don't see anything in the article that says his usage is wrong.

However, said article appears to have a good dozen definitions of what "tankie" means, so I'm going to assume it's one of those pejorative words that means whatever the fuck the user wants it to. We may as well turn it into a 6 page debate, because there's bugger all else that's different from yesterday going on in Ukraine right now.

 

[tim]

How do we know he had photograph of Stalin on his desk?

I read it about half an hour ago.

 

[tim]

Most governments are composed of more than one person

Yes, but Amin was having quite a lot of the members of his cabinet bumped off.

This was Andropov and Gromyko's take on the situation in the document cited above:

"H. Amin has established a regime of personal dictatorship in the country, effectively reducing the CC PDPA and the Revolutionary Council to the status of entirely nominal organs. The top leadership positions within the party and the state were filled with appointees bearing family ties or maintaining personal loyalties to H. Amin. Many members from the ranks of the CC PDPA, the Revolutionary Council and the Afghan government were expelled and arrested. Repression and physical annihilation were for the most part directed toward active participants in the April revolution, persons openly sympathetic to the U.S.S.R., those defending the Leninist norms of intra-party life."

 

[tim]

I read it about half an hour ago.

Here's a quote from the Amin that gave the Soviets the Willies.



As quoted in Rodric Braithwaite (2010) Afgantsy: The Russians in Afghanistan 1979-89, page 76

Hafizullah Amin Quote

Comrade Stalin showed us how to build socialism in a backward country: it's painful to begin with, but afterwards everything turns out just fine.

libquotes.com

 

[PTK]

I read it about half an hour ago.

I thought so.
It may be true. It is one of those little details that some writers like to add to add.
If you think that there was nothing wrong with the USSR intervening to overthrow a communist government, then I suppose that makes you a tankie.

 

[Rimbaud]

perhaps you should edit the wiki page to reflect your idiosyncratic take of the term Tankie - Wikipedia

You didn't read it did you?

In recent times, the term has been used across the political spectrum and in a geopolitical context to describe those who have a bias in favour of anti-Western states, authoritarian states or states with a socialist legacy, such as Belarus, Cuba, China,[9] Syria,[10] North Korea, Russia and Venezuela. Additionally, the term pejoratively describes left-wing political activists who are allegedly favourable towards non-socialist authoritarian states that oppose the U.S., such as Iran.[citation needed]

 

[Chz]

Today's ISW:

"Russian sources claimed on October 20 that former Russian Yukos Oil Company Vice President for Corporate Management Mikhail Rogachev was found dead in a possible suicide after falling from a window in Moscow."

Nothing more lethal to someone who's disappointed Putin than a Moscow window.

 

[tim]

I thought so.
It may be true. It is one of those little details that some writers like to add to add.
If you think that there was nothing wrong with the USSR intervening to overthrow a communist government, then I suppose that makes you a tankie.

Back in the 1980's the tankies were usually more congenial than the Eurocommunists. They once sold me a raffle ticket and I got quite excited about the prospect of winning a samovar. As to the coup, surely Amin was more of a tankie than Gromyko. Whatever his intentions were, a Kabul Spring was not on the agenda.

 

[Pickman's model]

You didn't read it did you?

i did read it and that doesn't really support your 'common usage today' claim, does it.

 

[Spymaster]

You didn't read it did you?

So, twats who would rather see Russia profit from a campaign of rape and murder, than encourage western support to Ukraine to prevent it.

The cap certainly fits our resident feline.

 

[TopCat]

I’m wondering what the catch all term for people is who, despite blatherings of personal and political morality, support the projection of US power both political and military?

 

[Spymaster]

I’m wondering what the catch all term for people is who, despite blathering of personal and political morality, support the projection of US power both political and military?

Yep. Definitely a Tankie.

 

[tim]

I’m wondering what the catch all term for people is who, despite blatherings of personal and political morality, support the projection of US power both political and military?

Americans.

 

[Rimbaud]

i did read it and that doesn't really support your 'common usage today' claim, does it.

Can't see any difference tbh.

 

[Pickman's model]

Can't see any difference tbh.

Time for a trip to specsavers.

 

[The39thStep]

I don't see anything in the article that says his usage is wrong.

However, said article appears to have a good dozen definitions of what "tankie" means, so I'm going to assume it's one of those pejorative words that means whatever the fuck the user wants it to. We may as well turn it into a 6 page debate, because there's bugger all else that's different from yesterday going on in Ukraine right now.

Hopefully that yugoslav poster won't take up your invitation otherwise I can see a 60 page debate.

 

[Rimbaud]

Time for a trip to specsavers.

I said:

common usage today is leftists who uncritically support any force perceived as anti-Western and downplay/deny/defend human rights abuses to that end.

Wiki said:

Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support acts of repression by such regimes or their allies.

...

In recent times, the term has been used across the political spectrum and in a geopolitical context to describe those who have a bias in favour of anti-Western states, authoritarian states or states with a socialist legacy, such as Belarus, Cuba, China,[9] Syria,[10] North Korea, Russia and Venezuela.

What exactly is this huge difference here?

 

[PTK]

The lesson of this recent diversion should be that perhaps it is not a good idea to use terms such as "tankie". It does not really further the debate to use them.

 

[Pickman's model]

I said:



Wiki said:



What exactly is this huge difference here?

has been used and common usage are two rather different things. i have used knives to open lids of golden syrup tins, but i don't suppose that's the common usage of knives. you made out that the dominant (common) use today was for a) leftists b) unconditionally supporting anti-western actions. it's not plain yours is the common usage, as you declared it to be