Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[krtek a houby]

Has the thread got any plans for celebrating victory day?

A special operation, perhaps

 

[Artaxerxes]

Has the thread got any plans for celebrating victory day?

Dust off the Croydon tank and sell it to Russia

 

[The39thStep]

Has the thread got any plans for celebrating victory day?

I’m celebrating my parents not being dragged out onto the street with their hands tied behind their backs, shot, and left in the road etc etc

 

[editor]

I’m celebrating my parents not being dragged out onto the street with their hands tied behind their backs, shot, and left in the road etc etc

Shame so many Ukrainians won't be able to celebrate that with you.

 

[The39thStep]

Shame so many Ukrainians won't be able to celebrate that with you.

As you will know it was officially celebrated in Ukraine until last year when the celebration of the victory was moved to a day earlier .

 

[Ax^]

FT https://archive.ph/RSktd

Ukraine is to start recruiting prisoners to fight against Russia under a new law designed to bolster its frontline forces, including with men convicted of murder or fraud.

......

The drive to enlist convicts is expected to result in several thousand new recruits from a prison population of about 20,000, according to David Arakhamia, a senior lawmaker. That is a fraction of the hundreds of thousands of fresh soldiers Ukraine says it needs this year to hold back Moscow’s advancing forces

.....

Ineligible convicts include serial murderers, drug traffickers and those guilty of sexual violence, corruption and national security crimes, according to Olena Shuliak, an MP from Zelenskyy’s party.

Men convicted of a single murder can sign up but would be automatically excluded if also found guilty of rape. Former high-ranking politicians and ministers who are serving prison terms are also not allowed to enlist.
Shuliak acknowledged that the law had the potential to “cause a violent reaction from society”, but said that it had been crafted together with the ministries of defence and justice, as well as the armed forces.

so only the russian army will recruit rapists into it ranks

 

[ska invita]

so only the russian army will recruit rapists into it ranks

no

‘It was a hunting ground’: women and sexual assault in the UK armed forces

Two years on from the government response to an inquiry into women’s lives in the forces, those who serve still face a culture of violent misogyny

www.theguardian.com

 

[Ax^]

from you earlier quote article

Men convicted of a single murder can sign up but would be automatically excluded if also found guilty of rape.

 

[TopCat]

Has the thread got any plans for celebrating victory day?

Never forget

 

[Dystopiary]

A Russian attack on Kharkiv has left at least three children injured.



Russian attack against Kharkiv injures at least 4, including children

Updated - at least seven people known to be injured, incuding four children.

At least three boys, aged 14, 15, and an eight-year-old girl were injured, the prosecutors said. Kharkiv Mayor Ihor Terekhov described the condition of one of the children as "serious."

A 55-year-old man and two women were reportedly injured as well.

Russia has recently intensified attacks against Kharkiv, using missiles, glide bombs, and drones to destroy energy infrastructure and kill civilians.

 

[Dystopiary]

At least two people have been killed by a Russian artillery attack on Nikopol.

The attack killed a 62-year-old man and a 65-year-old woman, while two men aged 39 and 67 were injured, Lysak said.

Two homes, a gas pipeline, a shop, and farm buildings were hit in the strike, and five apartment buildings were damaged.

At least six people, including a six-year-old girl and a 91-year-old woman, were injured in Nikopol on May 7 during a day of intense Russian attacks.

Russian attack on Nikopol kills 2, injures 2

 

[Yossarian]

Hope this report is true

Coverage of the event in at least four regions cut to footage of the destruction in Ukraine. It compared Putin to Hitler and showed his patriotic ‘Z’ symbol as being similar to the swastika.

Hackers target coverage of Putin's Victory Day parade to compare him to Hitler

Viewers were also told how their president had freed murderers and paedophiles to fight in his war.

metro.co.uk

 

[The39thStep]

Never forget

My position is :

I don’t buy into Putins cynical manipulation whereby the sacrifices of millions of Russians in defeating the Nazis are used as a justification for the 2022 invasion.

I don’t buy into the cynical manipulation by the nationalists in Ukraine where streets are named after those who fought on the same side as the Nazis and carried out pogroms even though the vast majority of Ukrainians fought against them.

I want to remember the sacrifices of mainly millions of working class people from the states of Allied Forces who defeated fascism without supporting the actions of of those states post 1945. The division of Europe by the ‘great powers’ led to anti fascist forces being undermined and attacked in order to advance the interests of those states over progressive forces. Similarly, I can remember those sacrifices despite those states post war records of invasions , occupations, fighting those who wanted independence from their empires and undermining democracies and supporting coups.

 

[TopCat]

• Ukraine’s parliament backed a bill to crack down on voted-on draft dodgers. The legislation includes raising fines for anyone caught trying to avoid the call-up and allowing authorities to detain draft dodgers for up to three days.

 

[kabbes]

• Ukraine’s parliament backed a bill to crack down on voted-on draft dodgers. The legislation includes raising fines for anyone caught trying to avoid the call-up and allowing authorities to detain draft dodgers for up to three days.

I really struggle to understand what your point is with these constant news updates about the Ukrainian draft. Is it that imposing penalties for breaking the law is wrong? If so, does that apply to any laws or just this one? Or is it Is it that conscripting an army is flat-out wrong? In which case, why do you never post about the Russia draft? Is news content about the draft only interesting if it is Ukrainian news? Or do you only think that conscription is wrong if you’re the invaded country, but fine if you’re the ones invading?

The sheer frequency of these posts certainly imply you have some kind of point to make. Why don’t you take the opportunity to clarify what that is, so that there is no doubt?

 

[tim]

I really struggle to understand what your point is with these constant news updates about the Ukrainian draft. Is it that imposing penalties for breaking the law is wrong? If so, does that apply to any laws or just this one? Or is it Is it that conscripting an army is flat-out wrong? In which case, why do you never post about the Russia draft? Is news content about the draft only interesting if it is Ukrainian news? Or do you only think that conscription is wrong if you’re the invaded country, but fine if you’re the ones invading?

The sheer frequency of these posts certainly imply you have some kind of point to make. Why don’t you take the opportunity to clarify what that is, so that there is no doubt?

Forcing people into the army is enslavement be it by Ukraine, Russia, Denmark, Eritrea,Israel or either of the Koreas. Don't you think that is wrong?

 

[kabbes]

Forcing people into the army is enslavement be it by Ukraine, Russia, Denmark, Eritrea,Israel or either of the Koreas. Don't you think that is wrong?

I’m not the one using it to make a comment about one of the sides in the war and not the other

 

[maomao]

It's surely being used as evidence against the image of Ukrainians as a united people all willing to fight Russia to the last man.

 

[tim]

I’m not the one using it to make a comment about one of the sides in the war and not the other

You imply that laws that enslave people are no different from any other.

 

[kebabking]

Forcing people into the army is enslavement be it by Ukraine, Russia, Denmark, Eritrea,Israel or either of the Koreas. Don't you think that is wrong?

Do you get to decide what's right and wrong for others, or do they get a say?

Conscription/National Service is considered entirely legitimate in Finland, Estonia, and Denmark (the places I know about, because I spend a lot of time in those places) including in the cohort who actually get conscripted. If they don't consider it enslavement, does your opinion matter more than theirs?

Personally I'm ambivalent on the concept of compulsory national service (which, imv, is a much wider idea than simply doing three years as a junior soldier), but the idea that anywhere it happens is by definition some kind of quasi-Fascist, authoritarian hellhole - like Finland, Estonia, Denmark, Norway, routinely voted the happiest places to live in the world - is just crass, embarrassingly simplistic nonsense.

 

[tim]

Do you get to decide what's right and wrong for others, or do they get a say?

Conscription/National Service is considered entirely legitimate in Finland, Estonia, and Denmark (the places I know about, because I spend a lot of time in those places) including in the cohort who actually get conscripted. If they don't consider it enslavement, does your opinion matter more than theirs?

Personally I'm ambivalent on the concept of compulsory national service (which, imv, is a much wider idea than simply doing three years as a junior soldier), but the idea that anywhere it happens is by definition some kind of quasi-Fascist, authoritarian hellhole - like Finland, Estonia, Denmark, Norway, routinely voted the happiest places to live in the world - is just crass, embarrassingly simplistic nonsense.

.The individual has the right to decide what is right or wrong for them. The state has no right to force them into the military and send them to murder or be murdered.

There are plenty of Finns, Estonians, and Danes who don't consider conscription legitimate.

 

[kabbes]

It's surely being used as evidence against the image of Ukrainians as a united people all willing to fight Russia to the last man.

Is it? Maybe TopCat could explain for himself why he repeatedly posts the latest news about Ukrainian conscription and never the latest news about Russian conscription or, for example, the latest news about Russian atrocities committed across Ukraine. I’d like to know his own reasoning for why the former is so much more interesting and newsworthy than the latter.

 

[kabbes]

You imply that laws that enslave people are no different from any other.

I imply nothing. I’m asking TopCat what his point is.

 

[ska invita]

I cant wait to see what gentile conscription rules kick in when we here in Oceania fully go to war once again with EastAsia

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I cant wait to see what gentile conscription rules kick in when we here in Oceania fully go to war once again with EastAsia

Gentile?

 

[Fez909]

I imply nothing. I’m asking TopCat what his point is.

You're wasting your time.

He supports Russia, but is afraid to come out and say it. Just accept this and move on, as no good comes of these meta discussions.

 

[TopCat]

I really struggle to understand what your point is with these constant news updates about the Ukrainian draft. Is it that imposing penalties for breaking the law is wrong? If so, does that apply to any laws or just this one? Or is it Is it that conscripting an army is flat-out wrong? In which case, why do you never post about the Russia draft? Is news content about the draft only interesting if it is Ukrainian news? Or do you only think that conscription is wrong if you’re the invaded country, but fine if you’re the ones invading?

The sheer frequency of these posts certainly imply you have some kind of point to make. Why don’t you take the opportunity to clarify what that is, so that there is no doubt?

Sure. The point is the west is much more enthusiastic about fighting this war than the Ukrainians who are forced by law to join up. Yet western supporters ignore the frantic efforts to avoid going to the front and urge the war to continue. Essentially I am taking aim at warmongers who scorn negotiations and call for more war but at no risk to themselves.

 

[Ax^]

damn warmongers not giving the dictator just he wants almost as bad as nato

 

[TopCat]

I will to continue to comment on Ukrainian governments tightening efforts to force people into the armed forces.

Given the widely reported shortages of personnel available to fight, and the lack of rotation for those who joined up around the time of the invasion, the Ukrainians will I think up their demands for Ukrainian men to return home. It will be interesting to see how EU countries respond to this.

 

[Raheem]

I doubt there's anyone on this thread who doesn't want to see an end to conscription in Ukraine. It's just a question of which method of getting there would be most fun.