Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[Ax^]

look at a document before it was broken down

so confusing

 

[Pickman's model]

look at a document before it was broken down

so confusing

if something is taken in parts in a legislature or other meeting it is divided into sections for the purposes of voting rather than being taken as a whole. this is what has happened to the big bill the senate passed to the house of representatives, that the majority leader in the house hadn't been able to progress it so he divided it into separate laws for the purposes of voting. please ask next time you don't understand something.

 

[Ax^]

I did not ask you any question and oddly need little information from you on understanding the American legislative process so thank you


simply stated it was split into separate bills so let stick to the threads they have relevancy upon

 

[Pickman's model]

should it not be discussed in its relevant thread

this is a question. saying something is confusing is asking for clarification. didn't ask a question my arse

 

[Ax^]

did not ask you a question if that helps


following protocols I will quote you by name of asking for your opinion

 

[andysays]

This article has a rather more sober assessment than some on this thread

Ukraine aid package could help Kyiv slow Russia’s advance​

So, what is the package going to do? It is likely to include air defence systems, mid to long-range missiles and artillery shells. Ukraine's recent lack of them has led to Russian forces capturing hundreds more square kilometres of territory. When the aid arrives, Ukraine can potentially challenge Russia's air superiority, frustrate their supply lines and slow advancing troops.
It won't give Ukraine the instant means to start liberating territory and force Russia back - but it gives a window for that to happen in the future. The consensus in Kyiv and Washington is that without this American help, Ukraine would lose.

 

[Yossarian]

How Russia has destroyed the industries in eastern Ukraine it promised to save

With the destruction this year of a major factory producing coking coal, which is burned to mill iron ore into steel in blast furnaces, the Donbas region’s steel industry is now wholly demolished. Other industries — like those producing chemicals, machinery and fertilizer — have been significantly degraded.

...In the towns that sprang up around mines and factories, migrant laborers from western Ukraine, Russia and elsewhere in Moscow’s empire turned to Russian as a lingua franca, while surrounding villages continued to speak Ukrainian. Russia justified its full-scale invasion two years ago in part by asserting without evidence that Ukraine was repressing Russian speakers in the eastern towns.

In the post-Soviet period, Russia used propaganda to stir resentment against Kyiv for factory closures and falling salaries in this rust-belt region, blaming Ukraine’s government for the economic woes. As Russia appealed to eastern Ukrainians to revolt and join Russia, it promised to revive the region’s industry — no matter that Russia’s own one-factory towns have suffered social and economic ills similar to those in Ukraine.

https://archive.ph/uZ16m

I hadn't known that Donetsk was founded by a Welsh businessman and was originally known as Hughes Town

 

[andysays]

I can't see any indication of how long this aid package is likely to last before another one is needed, but there is of course no guarantee that another will be forthcoming in future.

The past six months has not only revealed Russia's dominance, but Europe's inability to provide the same level of support as the US. "We need to think about the hypothetical eventuality the next package of US aid might not pass," says Mykola Bieleskov, a research fellow at the Ukrainian National Institute for Strategic Studies.

"That's why it's up for the UK and continental Europe to increase weapon production to meet Ukraine's requirements."
As for a realistic goal this year for Kyiv, Mykola hopes this American aid will help stabilise the front lines.

 

[Pickman's model]

I can't see any indication of how long this aid package is likely to last before another one is needed, but there is of course no guarantee that another will be forthcoming in future.

being as $23bn of the headline $61bn is going straight to buy things for american forces i daresay the impact of the funds will be rather less than our gallant allies had been hoping for. in any case, weapons rather rely upon people to employ them, in the main, and no amount of ballistic missiles will make up for the shortages in personnel the ukrainians have adverted in the extension of the conscription law to people aged 25 & over. we've been talking for months about the probability of funding being reduced for ukraine should trump re-enter the white house so this may be the last roll of the dice before the november election.

 

[Yossarian]

The TikTok bill also included the REPO Act, which allows the US to transfer frozen Russian assets to a fund for Ukraine

Under the bill, the President must require U.S. financial institutions to notify the Department of the Treasury of any Russian sovereign assets located at such institutions. The President may confiscate any such assets subject to U.S. jurisdiction. Confiscated funds and the proceeds of liquidated property must be deposited into the Ukraine Support Fund established by the bill.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/4175?s=1&r=54

 

[gosub]

I note the package for military aid to Ukraine and Israel includes a ban on Tiktok in the US if ByteDance don't sell it in a year. Surprised this hasn't been mentioned by cheerleaders of this legislation.

It's almost as if this package contains all kinds of things unrelated to Ukraine.

Its pork barrelling...that's how US politics works

 

[Spandex]

Its pork barrelling...that's how US politics works

I thought pork barrelling was where a politician directs national/regional spending to their local area to win votes.

 

[Silas Loom]

I thought pork barrelling was where a politician directs national/regional spending to their local area to win votes.

Yes, this is horse trading.

 

[kebabking]

I thought pork barrelling was where a politician directs national/regional spending to their local area to win votes.

I think it has several interpretations - the local issue tacked onto random bills is one, and a common one, but random issues tacked onto random bills isn't exactly uncommon either.

 

[nogojones]

Yes, this is horse trading.

So what's hamster molesting then?

 

[andysays]

being as $23bn of the headline $61bn is going straight to buy things for american forces i daresay the impact of the funds will be rather less than our gallant allies had been hoping for. in any case, weapons rather rely upon people to employ them, in the main, and no amount of ballistic missiles will make up for the shortages in personnel the ukrainians have adverted in the extension of the conscription law to people aged 25 & over. we've been talking for months about the probability of funding being reduced for ukraine should trump re-enter the white house so this may be the last roll of the dice before the november election.

And given that the assessments are that this aid will likely only be enough to stop or slow Russian advances rather than drive them out of the areas they've invaded, there's every chance that Ukraine will unfortunately be in essentially the same situation in another six months or so.

 

[TopCat]

So what's hamster molesting then?

Ask Clinton

 

[Silas Loom]

So what's hamster molesting then?

Feigned sympathy for the residents of an invaded country who would be much better off if they just learned to live with the facts on the ground.

 

[nogojones]

Ask Clinton

George or Hilary?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

George?

 

[Pickman's model]

And given that the assessments are that this aid will likely only be enough to stop or slow Russian advances rather than drive them out of the areas they've invaded, there's every chance that Ukraine will unfortunately be in essentially the same situation in another six months or so.

just so

 

[Pickman's model]

George?

 

[discokermit]

george clinton is the greatest of all clintons.

 

[belboid]

george clinton is the greatest of all clintons.

great in the Revolutionary War, but was a lousy VP to Jefferson.

Not to mention

 

[nogojones]

george clinton is the greatest of all clintons.

I don't know. Clinton Baptiste has a remarkable talent.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Clinton Cards was the best Clinton, now it's only Card Factory or massively expensive shite that you must buy to let people know you care a smidge more than Card Factory.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Possibly Pickman's can clear up where this was from? And then he and TopCat can try and remember that making an assertion which clearly wasn't common knowledge then immediately using it to accuse people of deliberate bad faith through silence is not the sort of behaviour they would appreciate from others?

I hope you ain't holding your breath for an answer on this one.

 

[planetgeli]

I hadn't known that Donetsk was founded by a Welsh businessman and was originally known as Hughes Town

Almost. What's wrong with you, don't you read every post on Urban?

Donetsk in Ukraine was founded by Welsh people. It was originally called Hughesovka after a bloke who was good at steel and ships was head-hunted by the Tsar to build his warships in about 1870. Hughes took 100 Welsh families with him as workers and built a town. It's now a million people city.

 

[Pickman's model]

Possibly Pickman's can clear up where this was from? And then he and TopCat can try and remember that making an assertion which clearly wasn't common knowledge then immediately using it to accuse people of deliberate bad faith through silence is not the sort of behaviour they would appreciate from others?

I did.

 

[Pickman's model]

I hope you ain't holding your breath for an answer on this one.

And you're someone else who could profit from remedial thread reading.