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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

andysays said:
I agree.

Has anyone said otherwise?
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It's barely been mentioned recently and doesn't seem to come up in the news often.

It's horrific. Those poor kids.
During the Russo-Ukrainian War, Russia has forcibly transferred almost 20 thousand Ukrainian children to areas under its control, assigned them Russian citizenship, forcibly adopted them into Russian families, and created obstacles for their reunification with their parents and homeland. Wikipedia
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It's been almost two years since Sasha Radchuck, then 11, pleaded with Russian soldiers not to separate him from his mother at what was called a "filtration camp" in Russian-controlled eastern Ukraine, where they had both been forcibly resettled after being forced from their home in besieged Mariupol.

He still talks of his mother in the present tense, but hasn't seen or spoken to her since April 2022.

"My mom is very beautiful," he said through a translator. "To every son, his mom is the best and most beautiful. For me, my mom is the best."

Now 13 and since reunited with his grandmother, Sasha is urging world leaders to press Russia to stop its practice of what the International Criminal Court deemed to be "unlawful deportation" -- a legal term for stealing children amid war.
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www.cbsnews.com

Ukrainian children recount horrors of being kidnapped by Russian soldiers

"I go around the world to tell about my mom. So maybe someone in the U.S. can hear me and help find her," said 13-year-old Sasha Radchuck.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

Russia are fucking scum.

The government in Kyiv estimates that at least 19,500 Ukrainian children have been deported and forcibly displaced from their homes to Russia and Russian-occupied territories since the full scale invasion began in February 2022, and of those only 388 have returned home.
The exact figure is unclear, and where they are is mostly unknown. The BBC has compiled evidence from many children who said they were separated from parents, were not allowed to go home or call their relatives.
In 2023, the International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for the Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Children's Rights Commissioner Maria Lvova-Belova for the alleged unlawful deportation of children.
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www.bbc.co.uk

Ukraine's missing children tracked down in Russia by digital sleuths

Investigators say they have found eight children, believed to have been abducted by Russia.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
emanymton said:
Well you have posted outright conspiracy theories I'm afraid

As for Far right, well it is their talking points you echo and in recent years many former left leaning people have been pulled completely into the far right orbit though conspiratorial nonsense. So I think you are in danger of ending up in the same place.

I may owe you a bit of an apology though. I don't get the same sense of glee and joy from you that I do from other posters, so if I have said or even just implied that in the past I apologise.

As utterly wrong as I think you perspective is on this you do at least you show concern for the massive human tragedy that is taking place.
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This thread isn’t about you or me so will try and keep it brief but wanted to acknowledge.

Urban is the only political website or media I visit or interact with so if I am echoing far right views I don’t know where I would be getting them from. I will concede however that there are some Blairite posters on the boards and their pernicious influence cannot be ruled out.

I would have thought any far right view I had would have been challenged by numerous posters and been evident on many more threads, as it is I think it’s just this thread, and mainly by you.

I think my posts have been fairly clear that I am anti war and want an end to the needless slaughter, and the global escalation that it is causing. I get no glee from any deaths, whether Russian or Ukrainian. I would like a negotiated peace settlement ASAP, however naive or idealistic that makes me. It is the likely outcome as you have conceded yourself so why not do it now and save thousands of lives.

Thanks however for the apology, qualified though it was.
 
Turns out Greene's amendment to conscript lawmakers who vote for the aid bill into the Ukrainian military was one of more than 120 amendments offered by Republicans, including dozens from Greene - among other things, she called for redirecting the funds to the border wall and expelling illegal immigrants, withholding funding until Ukraine bans abortion, withholding funding until Ukraine turns over information on Hunter Biden, and pulling the US out of NATO
 
Yossarian said:
Turns out Greene's amendment to conscript lawmakers who vote for the aid bill into the Ukrainian military was one of more than 120 amendments offered by Republicans, including dozens from Greene - among other things, she called for redirecting the funds to the border wall and expelling illegal immigrants, withholding funding until Ukraine bans abortion, withholding funding until Ukraine turns over information on Hunter Biden, and pulling the US out of NATO
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amazed she did not want the bill front page to be a picture of hunter cock...

the women is batshite crazy

say that his version had some legs


62 Version 4 Moskowitz (FL), Landsman (OH) Democrat Revised Sense of Congress that Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene (GA-14) should be appointed as Vladimir Putin's Special Envoy to the United States Congress. Revised
 
editor said:
So you hand Russia victory, condemn hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians to a life under a brutal neo-fascist regime and then what?
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HEAD of the US army (Milley) said to negotiate for peace in November 2022, as that was as good a position of "strength" Ukraine would enjoy - he knew it was downhill from there

HEAD of the Ukrainian army (Zaluzhnyi) gave an interview for which he was effectively fired for saying that Ukraine had no chance of pushing Russia back and every chance of being pushed back themselves.

General David Julian Richards, who was HEAD of the British armed forces from 2010 to 2013, says Ukraine are done and should "trade peace for land"

These are the top military brass saying this. Unlike you and me wishing for this and that they have to think about real strategy and real consequence. They're not "handing Russia victory", they recognise that Russia has won the land they've occupied - it was clear a long long time ago.
 
ska invita said:
HEAD of the US army (Milley) said to negotiate for peace in November 2022, as that was as good a position of "strength" Ukraine would enjoy - he knew it was downhill from there

HEAD of the Ukrainian army (Zaluzhnyi) gave an interview for which he was effectively fired for saying that Ukraine had no chance of pushing Russia back and every chance of being pushed back themselves.

General David Julian Richards, who was HEAD of the British armed forces from 2010 to 2013, says Ukraine are done and should "trade peace for land"

These are the top military brass saying this. Unlike you and me wishing for this and that they have to think about real strategy and real consequence. They're not "handing Russia victory", they recognise that Russia has won the land they've occupied - it was clear a long long time ago.
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And you honestly believe Russia would have just said "thanks for the extra land we've just stolen from you and we absolutely promise to never think about taking any more. Oh no, sir. We definitely stick to our word."
 
kabbes said:
I’m not going to pick individual paragraphs out of context from a thousand pages of posts, no. I’ve no interest in a scholastic nitpicking of he-said-she-said. However, the considerable corpus of text to analyse in this thread is more than sufficient to be able to describe the characteristic process that I and others are referring to. The telltale signs are where a poster employs a discourse that implicitly understands the world as being divided into two great empires. All actions are seen through this prism — nobody can act without it being for the purpose of one of those empires and antagonistic to the other. It is thus simply assumed that to be against the most antagonistic empire is to be on a positive side. Where this discourse is uncritically mobilised in combination with refusing ever to criticise one of the empires at all, under any circumstances, and regardless of harm, this becomes a case of taking sides in the assumed dichotomous war between empires. When this is also combined with finger-wagging about how the chosen empire should be left to get on with it, that’s what I would call revelling in it.
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just to come back to this, i cut my political teeth during the cold war arguing against the sort of shit im accused of here in smoky rooms, union meetings, public meetings, against tankies and some on the labour left and far left in an organisation with the banner "neither washington nor moscow", which is what had attracted me to them.
i have a long and proven political history of being against the russian state.
not that i have to explain myself to you, this is for anyone else that reads this and doesnt know my history. not gobshites.
 
editor said:
And you honestly believe Russia would have just said "thanks for the extra land we've just stolen from you and we absolutely promise to never think about taking any more. Oh no, sir. We definitely stick to our word."
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sorry we've been over this so many times, have you not read it before on the thread?
As head generals know full well a peace deal is not done on trust, it is guaranteed by brute force
a deal becomes guaranteed by foreign powers (US and European) who would be obliged to defend Ukraine's integrity in case of a breach of the treaty - unlike now where they are only able to supply weapons
 
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Yossarian said:
Turns out Greene's amendment to conscript lawmakers who vote for the aid bill into the Ukrainian military was one of more than 120 amendments offered by Republicans, including dozens from Greene - among other things, she called for redirecting the funds to the border wall and expelling illegal immigrants, withholding funding until Ukraine bans abortion, withholding funding until Ukraine turns over information on Hunter Biden, and pulling the US out of NATO
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Green is scum. Not as sophisticated critique Al grant you. But she believes in Jewish space lasers and all that other shit. I know you know this of course. But it is remarkable
 
ska invita said:
sorry we've been over this so many times, have you not read it before on the thread?
a peace deal is not done on trust, it is guaranteed by brute force
a deal becomes guaranteed by foreign powers (US and European) who would be obliged to defend Ukraine's neutrality in case of a breach of the treaty - unlike now where they are only able to supply weapons
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so you support Ukraine joining Nato?

and that not going to anger Putin
 
A negotiated settlement is what will happen in the end. but you don’t do that by allowing your enemy to march in and take what they want. Horrific as it is gross losses have to be inflicted. and it is of course not our country to negotiate away. As it’s been said before and be repeating it is for the Ukrainians to decide what losses they can bear. or to fight on. Given them the arms they need IMO. not your blood they’re spilling. saying they should’ve negotiated in 2022 is frankly disgusting.
 
xenon said:
A negotiated settlement is what will happen in the end. but you don’t do that by allowing your enemy to march in and take what they want. Horrific as it is gross losses have to be inflicted. and it is of course not our country to negotiate away. As it’s been said before and be repeating it is for the Ukrainians to decide what losses they can bear. or to fight on. Given them the arms they need IMO. not your blood they’re spilling. saying they should’ve negotiated in 2022 is frankly disgusting.
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yeah well losses have been inflicted, job done. Can we stop now then?
And if you're disgusted take it up with the head of that well known pacifist organisation the US military
 
ska invita said:
the things I support have nothing to do with the conversation...my point in posting here is above all to provide a reality check, first during the Ukraine Was Winning frenzy (it wasnt) and now to the War Must Never Stop crew.
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first part think more people were surprised the Russia was so ill prepared for a war they started thinking the could take full control of Kiev in 2 weeks


and your reality check us from the start is that Ukraine should of just rolled over in the first 2 weeks and now been a province of Russia?

hmm odd my stand point from the start is the same if they want to fight (the majority of the population that is) then support them till they change their minds

the war could always stop with Russia fucking off back home
 
everyone here wants the war to end. but arguing for the discontinuation of weapons supply to Ukraine is arguing for a desolation called peace. and there is not your country, not you to decide when they can give up.
 
This has probably been discussed before, but the differences between attitudes to the Ukraine War and the Gaza Strip War are interesting. I suppose the differences arise in part due to different analyses of the role of the USA in the world.
 
discokermit said:
id choose not to go out at all.
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hmm did the Russia start the offensive offering the population puppys or shells and tanks?

i've seen a few time it thrown at people well would you sign up to fight

Well the people of Ukraine choose to take up arms against an oppressive invading force
and should be supported because if it

To say they are stupid for keeping up the fight and should of just acquiescent to Russian subjugation is the height of arrogance from someone who never likely to face the same choice
 
PTK said:
This has probably been discussed before, but the differences between attitudes to the Ukraine War and the Gaza Strip War are interesting. I suppose the differences arise in part due to different analyses of the role of the USA in the world.
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depends how you look at it from some of the views expressed on here the Palestine's should accept defeat and march into the desert
 
Ax^ said:
hmm did the Russia start the offensive offering the population puppys or shells and tanks?

i've seen a few time it thrown at people well would you sign up to fight

Well the people of Ukraine choose to take up arms against an oppressive invading force
and should be supported because if it

To say they are stupid for keeping up the fight and should of just acquiescent to Russian subjugation is the height of arrogance from someone who never likely to face the same choice
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there you go. putting words in peoples mouths.
 
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