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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

Perhaps this is an only slightly related question, but have sanctions ever worked?
Mandela thought they did. Massive capital flight once the US and U.K. imposed their rather limited sanctions.

That the Russian economy has grown over the last couple years is hardly surprising. The economy shrunk to 70% of its former size immediately after sanctions, 2 years of 5/6% growth still leaves it around 80%. Given they managed to rapidly find new buyers for their (western) embargoed goods plus the normal bump from a war economy, is to be expected.
 
Mandela thought they did. Massive capital flight once the US and U.K. imposed their rather limited sanctions.

That the Russian economy has grown over the last couple years is hardly surprising. The economy shrunk to 70% of its former size immediately after sanctions, 2 years of 5/6% growth still leaves it around 80%. Given they managed to rapidly find new buyers for their (western) embargoed goods plus the normal bump from a war economy, is to be expected.
Following its invasion of Ukraine and the imposition of U.S. and partners’ sanctions and other economic measures, Russia’s economy in 2022 contracted by 2.1 percent (Figure 1),[ii] with record-high energy exports cushioning what would have been a far deeper contraction. Russia’s economy is over 5 percent smaller than had been predicted prior to the escalation,

from,

 
Following its invasion of Ukraine and the imposition of U.S. and partners’ sanctions and other economic measures, Russia’s economy in 2022 contracted by 2.1 percent (Figure 1),[ii] with record-high energy exports cushioning what would have been a far deeper contraction. Russia’s economy is over 5 percent smaller than had been predicted prior to the escalation,

from,

yes, sorry, 70% is just the oil revenues, not the economy. My bad.

But Mandela did definitely say it helped in SA. And the sanctions on Iran have definitely slowed down its nuclear development (that and many of the relevant establishments being bombed)
 
i would question them all until there was proof.
for instance, we know the un told ukraine to stop hiding military bases amongst civilian infrastructure, like schools, etc.
Military facilities are often near or amongst civilian infrastructure. That's the case in Gaza, Ukrainian but also Russia, Israel, France and the UK.
 
Zelensky signed off the controversial troop mobilisation plan yesterday.
Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has signed a mobilisation bill into law with the aim of boosting troop numbers. The parliament’s website said the bill had been “returned with the signature of the president” on Tuesday, after receiving final approval from lawmakers last week. The new law toughens penalties on draft dodgers, incentivises conscription and obliges men to keep their military registration details with the authorities up to date
 
Putin's hands are dripping with blood. Fuck him and his murderous regime. He sits in luxury and opulence while he sends Russia's working class (and anyone else he can force/trick/conscript into joining the slaughter) off into the meat grinder.

Russia's military death toll in Ukraine has now passed the 50,000 mark, the BBC can confirm.
In the second 12 months on the front line - as Moscow pushed its so-called meat grinder strategy - we found the body count was nearly 25% higher than in the first year.

The overall death toll - of more than 50,000 - is eight times higher than the only official public acknowledgement of fatality numbers ever given by Moscow in September 2022.
The actual number of Russian deaths is likely to be much higher.
Our analysis does not include the deaths of militia in Russian-occupied Donetsk and Luhansk - in eastern Ukraine. If they were added, the death toll on the Russian side would be even higher.

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if that's fifty thousand dead on the "grinder" side of the equation, how many dead on the "meat" side? half a million?
One thing's for sure: they're all dead because of Putin's regime.

And if you bothered reading the article before opening your mouth you would have learned:

Ukraine, meanwhile, rarely comments on the scale of its battlefield fatalities. In February, President Volodymyr Zelensky said 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed - but estimates, based on US intelligence, suggest greater losses.

What's your thoughts on Russia's meat grinder tactics?
 
One thing's for sure: they're all dead because of Putin's regime.

And if you bothered reading the article before opening your mouth you would have learned:



What's your thoughts on Russia's meat grinder tactics?
yeh, there's no way the ukrainians have only lost thirty thousand. i read the article when topcat posted it before you.

my thought on the tactics? successful.
 
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yeh, there's no way the ukrainians have only lost thirty thousand. i read the article when topcat posted it before you.

my thought on the tactics? successful.
I've said it before, but fuck it. I'll repeat.
The Ukrainians have lost 30k in the same way that the Russians have lost 50k. These are confirmed deaths, names known, bodies buried. The MIA on both sides is running at twice that, so triple either figure for a more realistic take.
 
Putin's hands are dripping with blood. Fuck him and his murderous regime. He sits in luxury and opulence while he sends Russia's working class (and anyone else he can force/trick/conscript into joining the slaughter) off into the meat grinder.





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while i agree that the butcher's bill is really high and it's really shit it's getting really really dull hearing about how shitty putin is, how his hands are dripping with blood and so on all the bloody time. in essence, calling putin a cunt palls after a while and it is a long time since it added anything to your analysis. this bit about how he's living in opulence and the poor fuckers who do the fighting and dying are living in shit has been done so often by so many people that it's a real cliche - i'm thinking of eg blackadder, the crass song 'general bacardi' and so on. i'm sure there's an interesting discussion of the bbc findings to be had - but your platitudinous post adds nothing to the thread beside the charts and link
 
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yeh, there's no way the ukrainians have only lost thirty thousand. i read the article when topcat posted it before you.

my thought on the tactics? successful.
So you're OK with tens of thousands of young men being needlessly slaughtered if you believe the tactic is "successful" for Russia?
 
I've said it before, but fuck it. I'll repeat.
The Ukrainians have lost 30k in the same way that the Russians have lost 50k. These are confirmed deaths, names known, bodies buried. The MIA on both sides is running at twice that, so triple either figure for a more realistic take.
no. if you read the article, the bbc itself casts doubt on this number, using "us intelligence" to hide behind.
 
if the ukrainians have lost thirty thousand and russia has lost fifty, in a war of attrition, this means ukraine is winning and winning well. when's the beach party in crimea again?
 
while i agree that the butcher's bill is really high and it's really shit it's getting really really dull hearing about how shitty putin is, how his hands are dripping with blood and so on all the bloody time. in essence, calling putin a cunt palls after a while and it is a long time since it added anything to your analysis. this bit about how he's living in opulence and the poor fuckers who do the fighting and dying are living in shit has been done so often by so many people that it's a real cliche - i'm thinking of eg blackadder, the damned song 'generals' and so on. i'm sure there's an interesting discussion of the bbc findings to be had - but your platitudinous post adds nothing to the thread beside the charts and link

An interesting take from that article is that when Wager was releasing rapists and murderers from prison they would be free to go home if survived 6 months of killing their neighbours, now any prisoners being released for the chance of a pardon will be at the front line until they die or the war ends, which ever comes sooner.
 
An interesting take from that article is that when Wager was releasing rapists and murderers from prison they would be free to go home if survived 6 months of killing their neighbours, now any prisoners being released for the chance of a pardon will be at the front line until they die or the war ends, which ever comes sooner.
that's because they were never intended to survive six months - i see you're a betting man, would you not have taken the odds?
 
while i agree that the butcher's bill is really high and it's really shit it's getting really really dull hearing about how shitty putin is, how his hands are dripping with blood and so on all the bloody time. in essence, calling putin a cunt palls after a while and it is a long time since it added anything to your analysis. this bit about how he's living in opulence and the poor fuckers who do the fighting and dying are living in shit has been done so often by so many people that it's a real cliche - i'm thinking of eg blackadder, the crass song 'general bacardi' and so on. i'm sure there's an interesting discussion of the bbc findings to be had - but your platitudinous post adds nothing to the thread beside the charts and link
You seem to be a bit slow to let this fact sink in, so let me remind you one last time, You've been on ignore for over two years now.

Absolutely nothing you say on any topic is of the slightest interest to me, so you are literally wasting your time and energy typing out whatever patronising, condescending and misrepresentational rubbish comes to your over active mind, because I won't read it, react to it, or care about it.

This has been a public service announcement. Goodbye.
 
An interesting take from that article is that when Wager was releasing rapists and murderers from prison they would be free to go home if survived 6 months of killing their neighbours, now any prisoners being released for the chance of a pardon will be at the front line until they die or the war ends, which ever comes sooner.
Imagine how utterly devastating it must be for the friends and families of the murdered victims and the women who were raped to see these criminals back on their streets.
 
if the ukrainians have lost thirty thousand and russia has lost fifty, in a war of attrition, this means ukraine is winning and winning well. when's the beach party in crimea again?
3:5 is actually fairly poor for the side that's been mostly on the defensive. There have been pushes that have seen the 5:1 losses you'd expect, but the Russians have learned to not do that so much now that they don't have an army of prisoners to use. So they've been slowly chipping away and that reduces their losses and increases Ukraine's. But it's still pretty much what you'd expect out of a defensive war. The numbers themselves are full of fudge and likely no-one ever will know the real statistics, but the ratio of them feels about right for the sort of fighting that's been going on since the Big Counter failed.

Your statement also ignores the material advantages Russia has, which are considerable. When you take those into account, 3:5 isn't too bad. But it's hardly encouraging, I'd agree with that.
 
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So you're OK with tens of thousands of young men being needlessly slaughtered if you believe the tactic is "successful" for Russia?

This is just pure misrepresentation, of a kind which is all too common across certain threads.

A really responsible moderator would be taking people to task for this sort of thing, but you yourself are one of the worst culprits.

As such you bear a significant responsibility for the toxic nature of this thread.
 
3:5 is actually fairly poor for the side that been mostly on the defensive. There have been pushes that have seen the 5:1 losses you'd expect, but the Russians have learned to not do that so much now that they don't have an army of prisoners to use. So they've been slowly chipping away and that reduces their losses and increases Ukraine's. But it's still pretty much what you'd expect out of a defensive war. The numbers themselves are full of fudge and likely no-one ever will know the real statistics, but the ratio of them feels about right for the sort of fighting that's been going on since the Big Counter failed.

Your statement also ignores the material advantages Russia has, which are considerable. When you take those into account, 3:5 isn't too bad. But it's hardly encouraging, I'd agree with that.
i don't think it is anywhere near that. russians are firing, from western accounts, between five to one and ten to one more artillery, the biggest cause of casualties in this war. add to that all the bombs they are dropping.
if the ukranians were suffering between five and ten losses for every russian one, i would not be surprised.
 
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