Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[Bahnhof Strasse]

so it is now ok to attack a nuclear power plant with drones? you can't see any drawback to that?

the best way for this to end is without a nuclear disaster in ukraine. or do you disagree?

Totally, so if Russia stops its invasion and goes home that issue will disappear.
Do you ageee?

 

[discokermit]

Totally, so if Russia stops its invasion and goes home that issue will disappear.
Do you ageee?

i agree but it is unrealistic.
russias view is, they had a vote, it's russia now. they are home.

so, you are saying it is totally ok to attack a nuclear power plant reactor?

 

[TopCat]

All you’re worth on this point.

Have already explained myself in depth on this, a post that you choose to ignore along with every other fucking post that doesn’t fit in with the position you have backed yourself into.

Your arrogance shines bright.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

They had a vote?

You are fucking trolling.

 

[TopCat]

the nuclear plant in Ukraine? The one occupied by the fascist invaders? Yeah? How could this situation stop TopCat?

At least you have stopped with the farcical claims Russia bombed the plant they control.

 

[TopCat]

Do you think they would be attacking it if their fascist neighbour wasn’t occupying it?

Seems to me they didn’t attack it before Russia came raping and murdering and I would guess they won’t do so once Russia fucks off.

TopCat doesn’t have the bollocks to answer honestly, do you? What do you think would be the best way for this situation to end?

Negotiations

 

[krtek a houby]

Didn't Russian forces target a nuclear station in the early days of the special operation?

 

[TopCat]

Didn't Russian forces target a nuclear station in the early days of the special operation?

More info? Link?

 

[editor]

i agree but it is unrealistic.
russias view is, they had a vote, it's russia now. they are home.

so, you are saying it is totally ok to attack a nuclear power plant reactor?

It's only Russia saying that the power plant was hit by drones, and their record on telling the truth is fucking appalling at best.

Loading…

www.reuters.com

And let's not forget that Russia definitely attacked a Ukrainian Nuclear Power Plant in 2022:

One year ago, on March 4, 2022, Russian military forces attacked and seized the Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP), the largest nuclear plant in Europe and the scene of profound Russian irresponsibility before and after its capture. The armed seizure of an operating civil nuclear power plant—and the pitched combat that took place around the site for months afterward—was unprecedented in the history of warfare.

And then there's:

• FEBRUARY 2022: In the first hours of the invasion, Russia seized and subsequently looted the Chornobyl Nuclear Power Plant, using the site as a staging ground for its attempt to capture Kyiv.
• FEBRUARY 2022: A Russian missile struck a radioactive source facility outside Kyiv.
• MARCH 2022: Russia launched strikes against the Kharkiv Institute for Physics and Technology.
• JUNE 2022: Russia conducted repeated strikes against a radiological storage facility near Kharkiv.
• AUGUST 2022: Shelling near ZNPP’s spent fuel storage facility damaged the plant’s external power supply system.
• AUGUST 2022: Shelling at ZNPP damaged facilities and caused a temporary power cutoff.
• SEPTEMBER 2022: Additional shelling damages ZNPP back-up power lines.
• SEPTEMBER 2022: Russia conducted strikes against the South Ukraine Nuclear Power Plant.
• OCTOBER 2022: Massive Russian strikes occurred against Ukrainian energy infrastructure, threatening the reliability of offsite power to Ukraine’s nuclear power plants.
• OCTOBER 2022: Russia conducted air strikes in multiple oblasts, damaging electric substations and critical infrastructure.
• NOVEMBER 2022: Russian military strikes cause all of Ukraine’s operating nuclear power plants to lose offsite power and temporarily revert to emergency generators.
• JANUARY 2023: Russian missile attacks damaged buildings at the Kyiv Institute for Nuclear Research.
• FEBRUARY 2023: Russian strikes hit thermal and hydro-generation facilities and high- voltage infrastructure in six regions.

Russia’s Disregard for Nuclear Safety and Security in Ukraine

Russia’s Disregard for Nuclear Safety and Security in Ukraine

www.energy.gov

 

[TopCat]

It's only Russia saying that the power plant was hit by drones, and their record on telling the truth is fucking appalling at best.

Loading…

www.reuters.com

And let's not forget that Russia definitely attacked a Ukrainian Nuclear Power Plant in 2022:



And then there's:

Russia’s Disregard for Nuclear Safety and Security in Ukraine

Russia’s Disregard for Nuclear Safety and Security in Ukraine

www.energy.gov

But you accept the Ukrainians were responsible yesterday carrying out three direct hits on the reactor housing?

 

[TopCat]

They put Europe at risk. Fucking irresponsible.

 

[Rob Ray]

targeting a nuclear power plant is demented.

It would be, but as we know the Ukrainian Armed Forces are not led by demented people, which raises the question of exactly why and how it was attacked, which would be a much more relevant/interesting conversation.

 

[krtek a houby]

More info? Link?

Sure thing

High-risk Russian strategy targets Ukraine's nuclear plants

Russia is directly targeting Ukraine's nuclear facilities in a strategy to undermine Ukrainian resistance to the Russian invasion but the tactic carries grave risks, observers say.

www.france24.com

"The Russian capture of Zaporizhzhia, around 170 kilometres (105 miles) north of the annexed Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea, raised the spectre of nuclear disaster around the world, as shelling hit the plant and caused damage.

It is unclear for now whether the nuclear plant was hit on purpose or by accident, although vital structures appear to remain intact."

 

[editor]

But you accept the Ukrainians were responsible yesterday carrying out three direct hits on the reactor housing?

Do you believe everything Russia says? Actually that's a rhetorical question because you clearly do.

No, I don't accept anything until it's been verified by independent authorities rather than repeat whatever is being claimed by a neo fascist, illegally invading force of war criminals with a long record of lying on the international stage,.

Do you totally condemn Russia's earlier, well documented attacks on the nuclear power station?

 

[editor]

They put Europe at risk. Fucking irresponsible.

Err, I think you'll find it was Russia's illegal invasion that has put Europe at risk. The entire area was at peace before then.

 

[editor]

Now Putin is trying to intimidate Finland, although invading that country would be an even stupider idea than the Ukraine illegal invasion.

“We generally had ideal relations with Finland. Simply perfect. We did not have a single claim against each other, especially territorial, not to mention other areas. We didn’t even have troops; we removed all the troops from there, from the Russian-Finnish border,” Putin complained in an interview with the RIA state news agency last month. Even so, Finland joined NATO. “That’s what they decided. But we didn’t have troops there, now we will,” he added.

Putin’s complaint was much like that of a bully or abusive partner claiming everything was fine until the other person went to the police or moved out. Indeed, one wonders whether the Kremlin’s top occupants have ever considered the effect their words and actions have on other countries, as it was, of course, Russia’s belligerence that prompted Finland to apply for NATO membership.

Putin miscalculated on Finland’s border

If Russia wants to intimidate Finland by announcing it’ll avenge the country’s NATO accession with troops on the border, it needs to have plenty of troops at its disposal. And Russia simply doesn’t…

www.politico.eu

 

[discokermit]

Sure thing

High-risk Russian strategy targets Ukraine's nuclear plants

Russia is directly targeting Ukraine's nuclear facilities in a strategy to undermine Ukrainian resistance to the Russian invasion but the tactic carries grave risks, observers say.

www.france24.com

"The Russian capture of Zaporizhzhia, around 170 kilometres (105 miles) north of the annexed Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea, raised the spectre of nuclear disaster around the world, as shelling hit the plant and caused damage.

It is unclear for now whether the nuclear plant was hit on purpose or by accident, although vital structures appear to remain intact."

they hit the office building a bit when they took it. didnt target the reactors though.

 

[discokermit]

It would be, but as we know the Ukrainian Armed Forces are not led by demented people, which raises the question of exactly why and how it was attacked, which would be a much more relevant/interesting conversation.

do we know that?

 

[krtek a houby]

they hit the office building a bit when they took it. didnt target the reactors though.

Fair enough. Storm in a teacup. (Unless it's the demented side, of course)

 

[Rob Ray]

do we know that?

Nope, and unlikely to given that Ukraine itself denies it had anything to do with attacking the plant and has suggested it's a Russian false flag (both sides have said this about various shellings at one time or another iircc). Motivation and plausible scenarios are a more interesting thing to talk about than just hearing Russia's accusation and saying "dearie me how awful that Ukraine did this" though. Personally I don't see what Ukraine has to gain from blowing up a nuclear plant in their own backyard where the literal fallout would mostly affect their own side, but there may be things to gain from causing a stink by mounting an attack you know won't cause that, idk.

 

[Chz]

Ah the will of the Ukrainian people!! By which you must actually mean one Ukrainian person, Zelensky...someone who has banned the biggest opposition party, who has missed the deadline to hold an election, has fired his biggest rival who it also happens was polling ahead of him, and who many commentators say actively stands in the way of applying different approaches, both militarily and in terms of peace talks. Meanwhile "Ukrainian people" , currently living under martial law, are voting with their feet and running away from conscription as best they can.

Really? I thought we'd ironed this one out before...

Article 83 of the Ukrainian Constitution states that if the term of the Verkhovna Rada expires under martial law, it shall automatically be extended until a new Rada is seated following the end of martial law. Article 19 of Ukraine’s martial law legislation specifically forbids conducting national elections. Thus, for Ukraine to conduct elections while under martial law would be a violation of legal norms that predate Zelensky and the full-scale Russian invasion.

 

[TopCat]

Sure thing

High-risk Russian strategy targets Ukraine's nuclear plants

Russia is directly targeting Ukraine's nuclear facilities in a strategy to undermine Ukrainian resistance to the Russian invasion but the tactic carries grave risks, observers say.

www.france24.com

"The Russian capture of Zaporizhzhia, around 170 kilometres (105 miles) north of the annexed Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea, raised the spectre of nuclear disaster around the world, as shelling hit the plant and caused damage.

It is unclear for now whether the nuclear plant was hit on purpose or by accident, although vital structures appear to remain intact."

That was made up.

 

[discokermit]

Nope, and unlikely to given that Ukraine itself denies it had anything to do with attacking the plant and has suggested it's a Russian false flag (both sides have said this about various shellings at one time or another iircc). Motivation and plausible scenarios are a more interesting thing to talk about than just hearing Russia's accusation and saying "dearie me how awful that Ukraine did this" though. Personally I don't see what Ukraine has to gain from blowing up a nuclear plant in their own backyard where the literal fallout would mostly affect their own side, but there may be things to gain from causing a stink by mounting an attack you know won't cause that, idk.

you think it might be a bit of a bluff? i think you could be right. maybe try and get americas attention a bit?

 

[krtek a houby]

That was made up.

The article or the attack?

 

[TopCat]

you think it might be a bit of a bluff? i think you could be right. maybe try and get americas attention a bit?

Only they know why they shelled it. For US consumption, maybe.

 

[TopCat]

The article or the attack?

The assertions that Russia shelled the plant they occupied.

 

[editor]

That was made up.

Man, you've gone so far down the rabbit hole you can't tell fact from from fiction.

Here's what the head of The International Atomic Energy Agency said. Or are you going to claim he's a liar?

IAEA chief Rafael Grossi nevertheless warned Monday that "military operations at nuclear power facilities have caused unprecedented danger of a nuclear accident, risking the lives of people living in Ukraine and in neighbouring countries, including Russia."

 

[krtek a houby]

The assertions that Russia shelled the plant they occupied.

And these incidents?

Russia’s Disregard for Nuclear Safety and Security in Ukraine

Russia’s Disregard for Nuclear Safety and Security in Ukraine

www.energy.gov

Although ZNPP has been the scene of some of Russia’s most serious misconduct in Ukraine, its disregard for nuclear safety and security has been widespread throughout the conflict:

• FEBRUARY 2022: In the first hours of the invasion, Russia seized and subsequently looted the Chornobyl Nuclear Power Plant, using the site as a staging ground for its attempt to capture Kyiv.
• FEBRUARY 2022: A Russian missile struck a radioactive source facility outside Kyiv.
• MARCH 2022: Russia launched strikes against the Kharkiv Institute for Physics and Technology.
• JUNE 2022: Russia conducted repeated strikes against a radiological storage facility near Kharkiv.
• AUGUST 2022: Shelling near ZNPP’s spent fuel storage facility damaged the plant’s external power supply system.
• AUGUST 2022: Shelling at ZNPP damaged facilities and caused a temporary power cutoff.
• SEPTEMBER 2022: Additional shelling damages ZNPP back-up power lines.
• SEPTEMBER 2022: Russia conducted strikes against the South Ukraine Nuclear Power Plant.
• OCTOBER 2022: Massive Russian strikes occurred against Ukrainian energy infrastructure, threatening the reliability of offsite power to Ukraine’s nuclear power plants.
• OCTOBER 2022: Russia conducted air strikes in multiple oblasts, damaging electric substations and critical infrastructure.
• NOVEMBER 2022: Russian military strikes cause all of Ukraine’s operating nuclear power plants to lose offsite power and temporarily revert to emergency generators.
• JANUARY 2023: Russian missile attacks damaged buildings at the Kyiv Institute for Nuclear Research.
• FEBRUARY 2023: Russian strikes hit thermal and hydro-generation facilities and high- voltage infrastructure in six regions.

The Kremlin is fully aware of the nuclear risks in Ukraine stemming from Russian military activity but has prosecuted its campaign against Ukraine’s nuclear facilities and civilian infrastructure heedless of the repercussions.

 

[TopCat]

Do you believe everything Russia says? Actually that's a rhetorical question because you clearly do.

No, I don't accept anything until it's been verified by independent authorities rather than repeat whatever is being claimed by a neo fascist, illegally invading force of war criminals with a long record of lying on the international stage,.

Do you totally condemn Russia's earlier, well documented attacks on the nuclear power station?

Yeah and Russia attacked the nuclear plant they controlled not Ukraine and also blew up nord stream too. You lack all credibility asserting this rubbish.

 

[TopCat]

And these incidents?

Russia’s Disregard for Nuclear Safety and Security in Ukraine

Russia’s Disregard for Nuclear Safety and Security in Ukraine

www.energy.gov

Although ZNPP has been the scene of some of Russia’s most serious misconduct in Ukraine, its disregard for nuclear safety and security has been widespread throughout the conflict:

• FEBRUARY 2022: In the first hours of the invasion, Russia seized and subsequently looted the Chornobyl Nuclear Power Plant, using the site as a staging ground for its attempt to capture Kyiv.
• FEBRUARY 2022: A Russian missile struck a radioactive source facility outside Kyiv.
• MARCH 2022: Russia launched strikes against the Kharkiv Institute for Physics and Technology.
• JUNE 2022: Russia conducted repeated strikes against a radiological storage facility near Kharkiv.
• AUGUST 2022: Shelling near ZNPP’s spent fuel storage facility damaged the plant’s external power supply system.
• AUGUST 2022: Shelling at ZNPP damaged facilities and caused a temporary power cutoff.
• SEPTEMBER 2022: Additional shelling damages ZNPP back-up power lines.
• SEPTEMBER 2022: Russia conducted strikes against the South Ukraine Nuclear Power Plant.
• OCTOBER 2022: Massive Russian strikes occurred against Ukrainian energy infrastructure, threatening the reliability of offsite power to Ukraine’s nuclear power plants.
• OCTOBER 2022: Russia conducted air strikes in multiple oblasts, damaging electric substations and critical infrastructure.
• NOVEMBER 2022: Russian military strikes cause all of Ukraine’s operating nuclear power plants to lose offsite power and temporarily revert to emergency generators.
• JANUARY 2023: Russian missile attacks damaged buildings at the Kyiv Institute for Nuclear Research.
• FEBRUARY 2023: Russian strikes hit thermal and hydro-generation facilities and high- voltage infrastructure in six regions.

The Kremlin is fully aware of the nuclear risks in Ukraine stemming from Russian military activity but has prosecuted its campaign against Ukraine’s nuclear facilities and civilian infrastructure heedless of the repercussions.

Perhaps edit the list to remove non nuclear plant attacks? Would shorten your list somewhat and increase accuracy perhaps.