The Ashes 2023
- Thread starter WhyLikeThis
- Start date
I quite like the guy's needle in a way. I mean he's probably a bit of a dick but sport does need a few wind up merchants. I love watching Siraj for that reason, always right up in the batsman's face. All adds to the entertainment.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Dunno, don't know his mindset, but I'm sure he'll retire if he does.
I think they'll 'rotate' him. And let him have the last match.
Well they did entertain. Get in a keeper who can catch, an opener who can open and a spinner who can bowl without grimacing in agony and they're sorted.
Seems to me the issues were selection based really - no proper w/k and a spinner who isn’t used to f/c cricket. Plus a fairly one-paced attack.
tommers
Fuck it, it's fine.
That's kind of the point isn't it? Go out, enjoy it. "the result is the bottom of our priorities and having fun is at the top", or something like that.
Yep. It's an admirable way to look at it. But for a few fielding errors this group of fairly mediocre players and ageing heroes would have been beaten the world champions who are currently in their pomp.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Yeah, suppose so. I just felt - coming over all Roy Keane - it should have been hurting a bit more. Maybe he's breaking some of the narratives around elite sport, which is good... I think.
Anyway, as Petcha said, this would have been a remarkable victory given the relative quality of the squads, which was made even more marked with England pretty much losing Moen. Apart from the missed catches, the thing that lost it was being just that bit too positive (at least 3 out charging the bowler).
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
It's bollocks though.
Ok for a village Sunday side but from the national test skipper ...
tommers
Fuck it, it's fine.
Well, you don't know what might have happened. Pre this approach they might have all got out for less edging it to the keeper trying to play defensively. That's the approach isn't it? No blame, do what you feel is the right thing, attack, have fun and try to keep the opponent on the back foot. Root coming out and playing a reverse scoop first ball tells you all you need to know. In that system the declaration makes perfect sense, it was aggressive, keeps the other team off balance. If they'd got the openers out then everybody would have said it was genius. Just cos they didn't doesn't mean it was a mistake. I know the Aussies won but they looked positively old fashioned during that test. If Stokes had kept hold of that catch at the end then who knows? Fine margins mate and moaning about who caused it and who didn't is from the old days. Personally I love it. That was a great test match and I don't particularly care who won it. England played some proper good stuff, and we almost won it.Yeah, suppose so. I just felt - coming over all Roy Keane - it should have been hurting a bit more. Maybe he's breaking some of the narratives around elite sport, which is good... I think.
Anyway, as Petcha said, this would have been a remarkable victory given the relative quality of the squads, which was made even more marked with England pretty much losing Moen. Apart from the missed catches, the thing that lost it was being just that bit too positive (at least 3 out charging the bowler).
tommers
Fuck it, it's fine.
Well, it's just another way of trying to improve results isn't it.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
This explains why the declaration was absolutely terrible and,
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Yeah, can't disagree with much of that. Australia won by having better players, not better tactics. England were unlucky with Moen and having to bat when it was very dark. But there's still got to be hard headed reflection. The declaration happened when Root and Robinson were going well. Bairstow was out charging the bowler and Moen did the same a few minutes later.
He did also say, "We are, of course, absolutely devastated. The lads are in pieces up there."Yeah, suppose so. I just felt - coming over all Roy Keane - it should have been hurting a bit more. Maybe he's breaking some of the narratives around elite sport, which is good... I think.
Anyway, as Petcha said, this would have been a remarkable victory given the relative quality of the squads, which was made even more marked with England pretty much losing Moen. Apart from the missed catches, the thing that lost it was being just that bit too positive (at least 3 out charging the bowler).
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Well played Aus. They did it the old-fashioned way and it worked. I felt like Aus were ahead most of the time until Carey got out. Then I found it weird England didn't take the new ball straight away and bowl for top of off, but then if Stokes holds on to that catch, they probably win...
I'm not down with the it doesn't matter spiel. It's sport and sport isn't important. But it matters. They're all paid a massive amount of money because it matters. Respect that. They lost and there were reasons for the loss, and they need to learn from it.
A spinner who broke down, an iffy keeper. Ok, I agreed with the gamble on Ali, and we all knew it was a gamble. I disagreed with leaving out Foakes but I actually didn't think Bairstow would keep that badly. They're not really problems. Shit happens. But I'm sorry, the declaration was hubris. It was bravado of exactly the wrong kind, the kind that doesn't respect how good the opposition is. Take liberties like that and it will come back and bite you. It came back and bit England. They need to learn not to do that again. Don't fear the opposition but respect their qualities when making decisions. And care about winning. Sorry, but that does matter. Learn from the loss. It's not all good.
I'm not down with the it doesn't matter spiel. It's sport and sport isn't important. But it matters. They're all paid a massive amount of money because it matters. Respect that. They lost and there were reasons for the loss, and they need to learn from it.
A spinner who broke down, an iffy keeper. Ok, I agreed with the gamble on Ali, and we all knew it was a gamble. I disagreed with leaving out Foakes but I actually didn't think Bairstow would keep that badly. They're not really problems. Shit happens. But I'm sorry, the declaration was hubris. It was bravado of exactly the wrong kind, the kind that doesn't respect how good the opposition is. Take liberties like that and it will come back and bite you. It came back and bit England. They need to learn not to do that again. Don't fear the opposition but respect their qualities when making decisions. And care about winning. Sorry, but that does matter. Learn from the loss. It's not all good.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I like Pat Cummins. That's kind of difficult. Give me a Waugh or a Clarke, please. Some dick I can dislike. Or at least someone I can like and dislike at the same time, like Warne or McGrath.
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
4 seamers or Rehan Ahmed for Lords?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Wood has to play.
Broad also has to play. (Yes I did say that.)
Fuck knows about Anderson. Maybe no Anderson. Being honest he was the least impressive of England's seamers.
Rehan could go badly wrong. At least he can bat, though. So dunno.
Lord's can be a green seamer. It can be flat and slow. For the most famous ground in the world, it often doesn't have the greatest of pitches. But I'd want a spinner.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Yes to all of that. The 'play positive, it doesn't matter if you get out' mantra only works because they've been winning with it. I mean, I know, that's kind of a vindication of the approach, by definition. And there's certainly something in there about not being afraid to lose, certainly. But it's clearly not a mantra that makes much sense as a universal approach. And losing does matter, as you say. Even if it doesn't feel quite as bad as all those Ashes losses in the Gooch, Atherton, Hussain and Stewart eras, they've just started a home test series that they need to get ahead in to retain the ashes with a defeat.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Oh fuck this was defeat to an equal. It was a defeat that feels like it should have been a win.
And Aus are a very good team. So yes that's progress.
I don't mind any of the funky tactics except the first innings declarations. Just don't do that. You want as many runs as possible in the first innings. Don't declare under 500. Ever.
And Aus are a very good team. So yes that's progress.
I don't mind any of the funky tactics except the first innings declarations. Just don't do that. You want as many runs as possible in the first innings. Don't declare under 500. Ever.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
... and on the first feckin' day.
I suddenly have a sense of deju vu. Didn’t this happen previously, and we said the same thing then as well?
