Operation pillar of cloud. Israeli assault on Gaza

[frogwoman]

Examples would be useful.

I was on a psc stall/demo in 2009 in a town centre of a local town and we were giving leaflets out and getting quite a good response until a group of people came down and joined the demo and started shouting religious/political slogans like "god is great" etc. The organisers of the demo didn't do anything to get these people to stop saying this stuff, although we asked, and people who had previously took our leaflets etc started walking past quickly and avoiding us like the plague

that's not the organisation's responsibility, obviously, but one of my main criticisms of psc is that they tend to allow absolutely anyone (and i mean anyone) to join, handing zionists etc a propaganda coup

I also think some of the imagery/signs on various palestine demos i've attended in the past could be look a bit dubious (star of david = swastika etc) to somebody who isn't familiar with the conflict, to say the fuckin least


obviously, that isn't going to convince people to become a zionist, but it may have the effect of people who may be sympathetic a bit more dubious about becoming involved etc ...

 

[frogwoman]

I'm happy to go into it more, but I also think that there is a tendency (and this is hardly unique to the psc etc) to, when picketing shops that do a lot of business with israel etc, to have a go at the workers of those shops and end up alienating them, but thats a problem with this sort of stuff in general

there's loads more, this probably isn't the thread for it though!

 

[Treacle Toes]

Anonymous ‏@YourAnonNews
#OpIsrael | HACKED: Israeli Vice Prime Minister's facebook: http://on.fb.me/QWKinR #Gaza

 

[catinthehat]

There is always a bit of that sort of element to aspects of activism though I think - people who are inexperienced and go off half cocked but for the best intentions. When there is a groundswell and people start getting involved there is a always going to be some who are naive or with single issue stuff don't make the connections, fail to spot the real enemy etc. Some of the people near me on the Edinburgh demo started getting fraught when some were chanting Intifada and were making oh that means holy war we don't like that noises. I tried to convince them that it didn't mean that but a couple of them left the demo because of it. But yes, you are right these debates are distractions and this thread is doing a great job of information and explanation and opinion.

 

[frogwoman]

@Rutita1, unfortunately, posting alink to the IHR website (a holocaust denial site) on the guys page is the sort of thing i am talking about ... possibly done unknowingly if your being charitable but still ...

 

[DrRingDing]

Just back from this...

http://indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/11/503087.html

 

[frogwoman]

There is always a bit of that sort of element to aspects of activism though I think - people who are inexperienced and go off half cocked but for the best intentions. When there is a groundswell and people start getting involved there is a always going to be some who are naive or with single issue stuff don't make the connections, fail to spot the real enemy etc. Some of the people near me on the Edinburgh demo started getting fraught when some were chanting Intifada and were making oh that means holy war we don't like that noises. I tried to convince them that it didn't mean that but a couple of them left the demo because of it. But yes, you are right these debates are distractions and this thread is doing a great job of information and explanation and opinion.

yeah there's that, there's also the fact that some people involved in psc (and indeed in any single issue organisation) do have pretty fucking dodgy politics and are using this as a springboard to promote those. i wouldn't say it's a majority, but obviously, distorted media coverage plus the fact that these types tend to be more "memorable" is going to put people off. i'm not even just talking about things like anti-semitism (which i've gone into before), i mean the fact that in the past i have come across people on demos etc with a clear religious/political agenda which they are using these issues to promote (or appear to do so). Their presence then gets amplified in a hostile media. This is nothing to do with the rights and wrongs of the conflict but it is, in my opinion, one of the reasons why people might be dubious about pro palestinian views or reluctant to take part in this kind of activism.

I mean imagine if you were on a demo against say the BNP and a group of people started shouting "shema yisrael" etc ... that type of stuff, prayers and declarations of faith have a place in worship but on a demo they become (or could appear to become) a political statement if you see what i mean ...

 

[Treacle Toes]

@Rutita1, unfortunately, posting alink to the IHR website (a holocaust denial site) on the guys page is the sort of thing i am talking about ... possibly done unknowingly if your being charitable but still ...

Eh? Where have I done that?
Of course it would be unknowingly! Being charitable wouldn't come into it!

Are you talking about the Anon tweet I posted?

 

[DrRingDing]

Bloody knackered.

Went to the Batsheva demo last night. You should of seen the utter filth in that queue. Waving their Israeli flags, grinning away. Utter fucking scum.

 

[Red Storm]

Rally in Belfast

 

[frogwoman]

Are you talking about the Anon tweet I posted?

yep.

 

[DrRingDing]

.

 

[Treacle Toes]

yep.

It took me to a facebook page hun...one where the banner had been replaced/hacked.

 

[frogwoman]

It took me to a facebook page hun...one where the banner had been replaced/hacked.

yes i know m8 the entire thing was hacked but this was one of the posts that was made by the hackers:

I don't understand why the holocaust and anti semite card are brought up every time something surfaces. It is just a report and not an anti-semetic journal. And mind you majority of the israelis are not even semites themselves. The Palestin
ians are the real semites.

And give me one good reason why I should ONLY consider the holocaust as a Jewish catastrophy? 54 million non Jews died in the WW2. Why am I being forced to remember ONLY the Jewish dead and not the rest?

Why the monopoly?

Killing Palestinians is anti semetism in itself and nothing is more anti semetic than zionism.

http://ihrDOTorg/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml
Auschwitz: Myths and Facts
ihr.org
The IHR, an independent, public interest history research and publishing center, seeks to promote peace and freedom through greater awareness of the past.

#

now the person might have posted this unknowingly but espeically posting from that site, which i've broken the link to but is basically a white supremacist organisation, it doesn't look good, and hands supporters of israel a bit of a victory on a plate

 

[Treacle Toes]

yes i know m8 the entire thing was hacked but this was one of the posts that was made by the hackers:

#
now the person might have posted this unknowingly but espeically posting from that site, which i've broken the link to but is basically a white supremacist organisation, it doesn't look good, and hands supporters of israel a bit of a victory on a plate

Shit, didn't see that at all White-Supremiscists, are not my thing afterall, or any kind for that matter.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Dima-Gaza  ‏@DimaEleiwa
#Photo : Aljazeera Office in #Gaza sustains major damages after the airstrike that hit Abu Khadra Governmental Complex http://yfrog.com/kf65gap

SH and HF were tweeting about big explosions close to them.
HF without power now and saying it's too dangerous to go out.
SH saying she is worried because the AFP offices were targeted earlier and now they are hitting close to the hotel.

 

[frogwoman]

Shit, didn't see that at all

No worries innit, easy to miss this sort of stuff and have posted similar by mistake Im sure in the past!

 

[sunny jim]

SH and HF were tweeting about big explosions close to them.
HF without power now and saying it's too dangerous to go out.
SH saying she is worried because the AFP offices were targeted earlier and now they are hitting close to the hotel.

Israel wants no journalists in Gaza at all

 

[Treacle Toes]

https://twitter.com/SilvanShalom

Hacked too!

Silvan Shalom ‏@SilvanShalom
MY HEART GOES OUT TO ALL THOSE WHO ARE SUFFERING IN PALESTINE. STOP THIS WAR NOW!!! END THE OCCUPATION. #GAZA

Silvan Shalom ‏@SilvanShalom
END THE MURDER OF INNOCENT BABIES, CHILDREN, WOMEN AND MEN. STOP THE BOMBING AND SORT YOUR HEADS OUT > ISRAEL #FREEPALESTINE #GAZA

 

[Treacle Toes]

Just wondering. An article earlier linked to a pastebin with usernames and passwords. Might be as a result of that?

 

[elbows]

Israel wants no journalists in Gaza at all

The funny thing is that they let them in this time, so I'm not sure its quite that straightforward. It may just be that the targets they want are located nearby to journalists, in great part because of the density of Gaza, and they also quite like the 'you are being used as human shields' propaganda.

 

[sunny jim]

Lulz!!
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-11-21/israels-vice-pm-seemingly-hacked-on-twitter/

 

[sunny jim]

And here it what the VP of Israel said....
http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/725/9805311755.jpg

 

[dylans]

The funny thing is that they let them in this time, so I'm not sure its quite that straightforward. It may just be that the targets they want are located nearby to journalists, in great part because of the density of Gaza, and they also quite like the 'you are being used as human shields' propaganda.

They are targeting Arab journalists. Particularly Gaza journalists. Its flows into this horrific narrative they are trying to spin that there are no civilian institutions in Gaza. See Regev justifying the attacks on Al Quds journalists because they are not "real journalists". They attacked banks too using a similar argument (financing "terror") It allows for attacks on civilian institutions and individuals.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Mark Regev yesterday.

 

[teqniq]

with dylans last post in mind this video is worth a watch though it is quite long:

Gaza's Dirty Little Secret Finally Revealed By Reporters (VIDEO)

To ignore the role of Israel's occupation of Gaza is to ignore the fundamental fact needed to frame the latest escalation in reality rather than rhetoric and propaganda.

To do otherwise, flagrantly falsifies the reality of the ongoing humanitarian crisis on the ground in Gaza.

The reality is complicated; mired in corruption, haunted by division, but is ultimately a product of obscene oppression. So obscene, that many, namely Israel and the US, would rather pretend it simply was not true - not real - but it is....

E2A Seriously massive crater:

erinmcunningham: Huge MT @pdanahar Crater from air strike that landed neatly on waste ground between the journalist' hotels in #Gaza http://twitter.com/pdanahar/status/271149812601196545/photo/1

 

[teqniq]

Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's government will not make any decision about a ground invasion of Gaza before the parliamentary elections on January 22, 2013.

"The government cannot take such a decision (invasion) two months before elections," Israel's top diplomat said in an interview with Yedioth Ahronoth. "We should leave this decision for the next government."

Lieberman is Netanyahu's closest ally in his government.

http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaza/israeli-fm-no-decision-ground-invasion-polls

 

[dylans]

Guardian is reporting that Israel are objecting to the demand for a cessation of targeted assassinations as part of any ceasefire.

In other words, they want a unilateral cessation of fire by the resistance while retaining the right to continue to attack Gaza at will without retaliation.

This amounts to a demand for unconditional surrender not a ceasefire

lsrael was reported to have rejected a Hamas demand that it pledge to refrain from "targeted assassinations" of the kind that killed the Hamas military chief Ahmed al-Jaabari at the start of this latest crisis last Wednesday.

 

[dylans]

Interesting article in the Independent on the Israeli writer Gideon Levy who is the nearest Israel have to a dissident intellectual

He seems so at home in the world of book festivals and black coffee that it is hard, at first, to picture him on the last occasion he was in Gaza – in November, 2006, before the Israeli government changed the law to stop him going.
He reported that day on a killing, another of the hundreds he has documented over the years. As twenty little children pulled up in their school bus at the Indira Gandhi kindergarten, their 20 year-old teacher, Najawa Khalif, waved to them – and an Israel shell hit her and she was blasted to pieces in front of them. He arrived a day later, to find the shaking children drawing pictures of the chunks of her corpse. The children were “astonished to see a Jew without weapons. All they had ever seen were soldiers and settlers.”

One article was entitled “The last meal of the Wahbas family.” He wrote: “They’d all sat down to have lunch at home: the mother Fatma, three months pregnant; her daughter Farah, two; her son Khaled, one; Fatma’s brother, Dr Zakariya Ahmed; his daughter in law Shayma, nine months pregnant; and the seventy-eight year old grandmother. A Wahba family gathering in Khan Yunis in honour of Dr Ahmed, who’d arrived home six days earlier from Saudi Arabia. A big boom is heard outside. Fatma hurriedly scoops up the littlest one and tries to escape to an inner room, but another boom follows immediately. This time is a direct hit.”
In small biographical details, he recovers their humanity from the blankness of an ever-growing death toll. The Wahbas had tried for years to have a child before she finally became pregnant at the age of 36. The grandmother tried to lift little Khaled off the floor: that’s when she realised her son and daughter were dead

Levy uses a simple technique. He asks his fellow Israelis: how would we feel, if this was done to us by a vastly superior military power? Once, in Jenin, his car was stuck behind an ambulance at a checkpoint for an hour. He saw there was a sick woman in the back and asked the driver what was going on, and he was told the ambulances were always made to wait this long. Furious, he asked the Israeli soldiers how they would feel if it was their mother in the ambulance – and they looked bemused at first, then angry, pointing their guns at him and telling him to shut up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...n-israel-or-just-the-most-heroic-2087909.html

 

[CNT36]

Interesting article in the Independent on the Israeli writer Gideon Levy who is the nearest Israel have to a dissident intellectual








http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...n-israel-or-just-the-most-heroic-2087909.html

I read the punishment of Gaza a little while ago. Its a collection of his articles and worth a look.