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Operation pillar of cloud. Israeli assault on Gaza

DotCommunist said:
entrenched positions within the terrain ftw
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That's not a tank battle. No fucker describes eg the battle of ancre as a tank battle. A battle in which tanks are used by one side is not a tank battle. If fights were judged by the weapons held by just one side, then i've been in a couple of knife fights. Though that conjures up a rather different image to what actually occurred.
 
Pickman's model said:
Traditionally, both sides in a tank battle have, er, tanks, like at kursk. So it seems to me hezbollah's 2006 achievement must be unique in the annals of modern warfare.
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Take out the front tank with a mine or RPG etc and the rear, the rest are sitting ducks, the Soviets and NATO have lost numerous tanks in Afghanistan this way. The French resistance in WW2 used to chop down trees to hold up Panzers, then take out the rear ones tracks with a sticky bomb, tanks without mobility are sitting ducks.
 
Pickman's model said:
And iirc one or two rockets landed inside the zionist entity

incidentally, can you explain how hezbollah won a tank battle without tanks?
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I don't recall them "winning" any tank battle or any battle for that matter. Guerilla armies rarely do win battles. The strength of a guerilla army is its ability to inflict damage on a stronger enemy and survive. What they did do was catch the IDF by surprise and take them on with anti tank weapons, inflict significant casualties, stopped the IDF ground offensive,, and forced the Israelis to halt what could have been a much deeper and longer ground assault. It was a very significant victory. The first time that any Arab army, let alone a non state organisation, had managed to take on the IDF and stop them in their tracks since, well, ever. It was a symbolic victory for Hezbollah which saved Lebanon from a ground invasion and made the Israelis bleed. For the first time it showed that the IDF wasn't invincible. Hezbollah emerged much stronger and more popular from that war and the IDF emerged weaker.
 
dylans said:
I don't recall them "winning" any tank battle or any battle for that matter. Guerilla armies rarely do win battles. The strength of a guerilla army is its ability to inflict damage on a stronger enemy and survive. What they did do was catch the IDF by surprise and take them on with anti tank weapons, inflict significant casualties, stopped the IDF ground offensive,, and forced the Israelis to halt what could have been a much deeper and longer ground assault. It was a very significant victory. The first time that any Arab army, let alone a non state organisation, had managed to take on the IDF and stop them in their tracks since, well, ever. It was a symbolic victory for Hezbollah which saved Lebanon from a ground invasion. For the first time it showed that the IDF wasn't invincible. Hezbollah emerged much stronger from that battle and the IDF emerged weaker.
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Their tactics held up the IDF armoured columns, they were very effective, the RPG 29 is more then a match for the Merkava Mk 4, take out the front and last tank, then throw in lots of mortar rounds. This time around they also have Iranian supplied night vision sights they never had in the past. Last time around the IDF was forced to operate alot of its tank column movements under darkness, they will take more losses this time.
 
if you read 'street without joy' about the french in vietnam there's some detailed descriptions of ambushes of french columns: guerrillas can take on regular forces on occasion.
 
Kid_Eternity said:
Turkey has long realised there's no value in either NATO or Europe for them. They're keen to be a ME player with links to East Africa to shore up their efforts to be a geo political player...
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Perhaps. I think the US would see Turkey's value in NATO, though, and would be keen not to upset them by involving Israel. NATO is a treaty that basically says that an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us. TBH, I doubt there are many in NATO who would be prepared to stand in solidarity with Israel like that.
 
caoineadh7 said:
It all depends on the terrain. Modern tank columns are also protected by attack helicopters.
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Where available. Outside eu/nato, russia, china, japan, israel only a few countries will have the wherewithal to field such weaponry. I read - sadly forget where - that there's only about six countries can project military force overseas: and I don't think israel's among them.
 
Whenevre Israel launches a war it seems to have a limtied windown of opportunity before international pressure forces the US to put them back on the leash.
When they attacked lebanon last time around, Hizbollah stopped the IDF from making significent ground in the time available.
This time around it seems that Israel has even less international support. The Arab spring has changed the game.
Pramactically you'd think that sooner or later they will have to negotiate a meaningful settlement with the palastinians- but they have painted themselves into a corner.
 
Kaka Tim said:
Whenevre Israel launches a war it seems to have a limtied windown of opportunity before international pressure forces the US to put them back on the leash.
When they attacked lebanon last time around, Hizbollah stopped the IDF from making significent ground in the time available.
This time around it seems that Israel has even less international support. The Arab spring has changed the game.
Pramactically you'd think that sooner or later they will have to negotiate a meaningful settlement with the palastinians- but they have painted themselves into a corner.
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I think Israel could take alot more losses this time. They seem to be hesitating.
 
My impression is that the preparations for a ground invasion are mainly a bluff.
Israel does not want to go in on the ground.
 
Whether or not it's a bluff, it's certainly true that they only have a certain window of opportunity in which to commit their war-crimes. Every day that passes without a ground assault lowers the over-all death count in Gaza.
 
weltweit said:
What exactly is "observer status"?
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It is the best that the Palestinians can expect to get because Israel and America will boycott a full membership of the UN. It is a token but could be a useful marker of partial recognition that Palestine is a state in its own right.
 
Pickman's model said:
Where available. Outside eu/nato, russia, china, japan, israel only a few countries will have the wherewithal to field such weaponry. I read - sadly forget where - that there's only about six countries can project military force overseas: and I don't think israel's among them.
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I remember reading something similar and it was based on countries that have aircraft carriers. According to Wiki, that's 10 countries though, and like you I remember it being a smaller number.
 
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