sunny jim
A pikey fluffy type
Oh FFS!
What sort of fucking stupid question is that? Why not ask why Israel bombing the fucking shit out of one of the populous places on earth?
Operation pillar of cloud. Israeli assault on Gaza
- Thread starter dylans
- Start date
Oh FFS!
What sort of fucking stupid question is that? Why not ask why Israel bombing the fucking shit out of one of the populous places on earth?
.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Its a fair question. The short answer is because Israel decided it was a good idea to assassinate their leadership
sunny jim
A pikey fluffy type
Just as an extended cease fire was about to be ratified by the leadership of Hamas and a member of the Israeli government
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/opinion/israels-shortsighted-assassination.html?smid=tw-share
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Jabari was the man responsible for enforcing previous ceasefires on the other resistance factions too. Its hard not to see his assassination as anything but an attempt to sabotage any long term mutual ceasefire and that is because Israel doesn't want its hands tied when it comes to its ability to attack the resistance at will.Just as an extended cease fire was about to be ratified by the leadership of Hamas and a member of the Israeli government
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/opinion/israels-shortsighted-assassination.html?smid=tw-share
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Why? Because he's having a go at Harrys' Place?
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
They had to release a statement confirming they weren't terrorists. Looks like they've been doing a lot to help people keep communication lines open too.
smmudge
i know the smudge is true
Short answer: because they are under occupation by an invading and oppressive force, and it is their right (some might even say duty) to resist it. Also note that Hamas get the blame and are quite happy to take the responsibility for it, but there are various 'armed' resistance groups in Palestine.
Long answer: Tensions have been rising since around the beginning of this month, after Israeli soldiers on the border killed a Palestinian man (who was unarmed and possibly mentally unfit) after he walked too close to the Israeli 'buffer zone'. That was on the 5th November.
Then on the 8th November a 13 year old Palestinian boy was shot and later died after some Israeli tanks and bulldozers invaded southern Gaza (not an unusual occurrence by the way). Only a few rockets were fired from Gaza in this period. On 10th November the Palestinian resistance injured 4 Israeli soldiers who were in a Jeep by the boundary. Israel retaliated by attacking neighbourhoods, killing 6 Palestinians and injuring 52. There were quite a few rockets after this.
Then there's talk of a ceasefire, but 2 rockets were fired on the 12th November, while Israeli air attacks damaged civilian facilities. On 13th November the truce was supposed to take hold. Israel broke this on 14th November with the killing of Hamas' Ahmad al-Jabari. That's when the main fighting kicked off.
So let's be absolutely clear here: violence can't be justified if there are peaceful options. But the Palestinian resistance have no options. Even violence doesn't work for them; peaceful means have no chance. Israel have plenty of peaceful options open to them which would stop the rocket fire, but options they are not interested in and wouldn't even consider.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Israel launches multiple airstrikes on Gaza
Ahmed al-Jaabari, the head of Hamas' military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam has been assassinated. At least 9 civilians killed including a 4 year old and a 7 year old
It's looking like Israel is about to launch a repeat of Cast Lead.
I must have missed the report of the death of the Israeli civilians in your post, likewise the 500 or so rockets fired from Gaza. Oh, and I see that I missed the report of the rocket falling close to Jerusalem, contrary to the outright lie lie told previously on the boards, that such rockets are so primitive that they do not have the range.
Never mind, continue with your anti-Israeli circle-jerk, what else would one expect from Urban?
I an now off to Stobo Castle Hotel for a night of luxurious living, just to offended the paid up proletariat even further. It was a birthday present though.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
It hasn't as of yet, so it probably never will.
Treacle Toes
Time
Feel free to post 'proof' of these things Sass.
Also, do you know anything about the boy shot dead by the IDF on the 8/11/12?
NO? I wonder why?
What on your thoughts about the killing of the Hamas 'leader' involved in the negotiations of a peaceful resolution?
Haven't got any? Shame that.
Another thing, how do you think you would feel/respond to the occupation of your land, the systematic slaughter and subjugation of your people etc?
Haven't thought about it? Ah I see.
Enjoy your b-day present.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Reports that three Israelis have died, compared to the reported 39 Palestinian deaths & over 300 injured. There's fuck all "circle-jerk" about it for crying out fucking loud!!!
elbows
Well-Known Member
There is more than one kind of rocket, and more than one group with rockets. The vast bulk of the rockets that are fired and that we hear about are pretty crap, with a limited range. The rockets with a longer range are in much shorter supply, may have come from Iran, and may be in the hands of a group other than Hamas.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
And what of those Israelis who want peace and who oppose your neocon chums in the Knesset?
Do you read Nile Gardiner's blogs by any chance? You seem like the type.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Oh FFS!
Because its clear-Ive not read the thread-and I was asking why because Im not following the news at the moment. Sorry if you think thats stupid....
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Perhaps the families of those 3 dead civilians should ask Netanyahu why he sacrificed their lives for a cynical election bid?
While they are at it perhaps they should ask him why he deliberately scuppered a long term ceasefire plan in order to carry out another mass slaughter of Palestinian civilians.
While they are at it they should also ask him why, if the mass murder of Gazan's is such an effective method of stopping rocket attacks, why did the last one fail so badly.
They should also ask him why, if the sole reason for conflict is Hamas resistance, why the PA which has renounced violence and runs the West Bank with Israel's approval and US cash has failed to stop a single settlement expansion or end the military occupation of Palestinian land.
Fuck you and your fake crocodile tears for civilian deaths. If you really cared about ending this conflict then you would stop defending the indefensible and demand Israel obey its international obligations and end its military occupation of Palestine.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Thanks for that explanation-as I mentioned earlier Ive not been keeping up with this on the news.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I see the news today features clear signs of troop buildup near the border.
Meanwhile for those looking for info about what kicked things off earlier in November, this Reuters article about the Palestinian boy who was killed does mention that there had been a two week lull in the fighting before that incident.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/08/us-palestinians-israel-violence-idUSBRE8A711O20121108
Meanwhile for those looking for info about what kicked things off earlier in November, this Reuters article about the Palestinian boy who was killed does mention that there had been a two week lull in the fighting before that incident.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/08/us-palestinians-israel-violence-idUSBRE8A711O20121108
dylans
overlord of all acorns
It is increasingly obvious to anyone but the wilfully blind that Israel initiated this conflict. A number of reasons have been put forward on this thread and on the web as to why. The upcoming Israeli elections and Netanyahus desire to look tough by killing Palestinians (always a vote winner), the desire by Israel to scupper an imminent long term ceasefire arrangement, have all been put forward as reasons.
I think there is some truth to both of these reasons but I think there is another reason too. The knowledge that Hamas have taken possession of long range rockets from Iran the Fajr 5, and the need to initiate a conflict in order to create an excuse to go in and attempt to destroy them.
It was widely reported that Israel had recently attacked Sudan and it is widely accepted that the target was a weapons factory or warehouse of some kind that Iran was using to store weaponry before smuggling it into Gaza. The fact that some has got through is a major victory for the resistance and a blow to Israeli intelligence because clearly, despite bombing Sudan, some had already flown the coop. If this is true then the attack on Gaza is act two in a conflict which began in Sudan.
This is bad news for Israel because for once it means the resistance have a weapon that can hit central Israel, particularly Tel Aviv. Something that Israel has not had to deal with in 20 years. If this is true then I think a ground operation is inevitable.
As I posted earlier, the thing about the Fajr 5 is not only that they have a much wider range but that they have a much wider firing ground too. In other words, the Israelis will have to target or search a much wider area in order to find or destroy them. This means that a larger ground invasion than last time is a serious prospect simply because they will have to search a larger area
It is also possible of course, that the Israelis suspect that the resistance have these weapons but don't know and have initiated this conflict in order to find out. I don't know if any of these weapons have been used. I know that some rockets have made it to Tel Aviv but I can't find confirmation that these weapons were Fajr 5s and not some other kind of modified rocket.
If Hamas have them they are faced with a decision. Use them and show their hand or keep them hidden which kind of defeats the purpose of having them. Either way I think the possibility that the resistance have these weapons is one of the principle reasons Israel have started this conflict. Israel, after all, doesn't like an enemy that can fight back
I think there is some truth to both of these reasons but I think there is another reason too. The knowledge that Hamas have taken possession of long range rockets from Iran the Fajr 5, and the need to initiate a conflict in order to create an excuse to go in and attempt to destroy them.
It was widely reported that Israel had recently attacked Sudan and it is widely accepted that the target was a weapons factory or warehouse of some kind that Iran was using to store weaponry before smuggling it into Gaza. The fact that some has got through is a major victory for the resistance and a blow to Israeli intelligence because clearly, despite bombing Sudan, some had already flown the coop. If this is true then the attack on Gaza is act two in a conflict which began in Sudan.
This is bad news for Israel because for once it means the resistance have a weapon that can hit central Israel, particularly Tel Aviv. Something that Israel has not had to deal with in 20 years. If this is true then I think a ground operation is inevitable.
As I posted earlier, the thing about the Fajr 5 is not only that they have a much wider range but that they have a much wider firing ground too. In other words, the Israelis will have to target or search a much wider area in order to find or destroy them. This means that a larger ground invasion than last time is a serious prospect simply because they will have to search a larger area
It is also possible of course, that the Israelis suspect that the resistance have these weapons but don't know and have initiated this conflict in order to find out. I don't know if any of these weapons have been used. I know that some rockets have made it to Tel Aviv but I can't find confirmation that these weapons were Fajr 5s and not some other kind of modified rocket.
If Hamas have them they are faced with a decision. Use them and show their hand or keep them hidden which kind of defeats the purpose of having them. Either way I think the possibility that the resistance have these weapons is one of the principle reasons Israel have started this conflict. Israel, after all, doesn't like an enemy that can fight back
I think (not really been following things recently) you're asking why it's kicked off this time round, and as far as I can tell, it never really stops kicking off in this part of the world. Israel killed a Hamas general and civilians with a targetted airstrike last week (the week before?) and that was the first I heard of it but rocket lobbing is part of the Hamas agenda and I think they do have some fair reasons for doing this.
I don't think there's ever anything approaching peace around Gaza, it just goes in and out of the news, ebbs and flows.
Also there's some impressive technology floating around, and people like to use it. Guns don't kill people, people with guns and missiles, and missile shields and whatever, kill people.
I'm not too well informed about this, this is just my take on it. Anyway I hope it quietens down again soon.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
There is a practical test of this. The PA runs the West Bank with full Israeli permission. It is on the payroll of the US. It has done everything Israel has asked of it to the point of humiliation. It has renounced violent resistance. It has arrested imprisoned and killed resistance fighters. It polices the West Bank and routinely breaks up anti Israeli demonstrations. It runs the West Bank as a puppet state and acts as Israel's enforcer of its occupation.
It is a shining example of a compliant regime that has effectively surrendered to Israel. And what has it got for its trouble? Settlements continue relentlessly. There are now 500.000 settlers in the West Bank and the number is growing all the time. Israel and its western supporters have shot down even the symbolic attempts at UN statehood declarations. Negotiations are a joke that Israel doesn't even pretend to take seriously and act as merely a cover to buy time for more settlements and the military occupation is deeper than ever.
This is the question Israel's supporters have to answer. If Hamas violence is the sole cause of conflict as they claim then why is the West Bank still under military occupation and settlement nearly 20 years after Oslo?
Similar threads
