Operation pillar of cloud. Israeli assault on Gaza

[dylans]

It's not like they're awash with friends now

In the Arab world this is true and perhaps the only optimistic sign on the horizon. The Israelis lost a good friend when Mubarak fell and any move towards more representative governance in the Arab world is bad for Israel. They have not been so isolated in the region in a long time. A slight cause for optimism admittedly but lets face it we have been grasping at straws for a long time now

 

[IC3D]

In the Arab world this is true and perhaps the only optimistic sign on the horizon. The Israelis lost a good friend when Mubarak fell and any move towards more representative governance in the Arab world is bad for Israel. They have not been so isolated in the region in a long time. A slight cause for optimism admittedly but lets face it we have been grasping at straws for a long time now

I think that optimism rather falls flat on its face, when there is no Egyptian medical support and the Rafah crossing remains firmly shut (at least to my knowledge last night)

 

[dylans]

Israel is threating to "annul Oslo Accords if Palestinians seek upgraded UN status" http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...ians-seek-upgraded-un-status.premium-1.477520

Good. Let them. All Oslo does is provide a mask for Israel's occupation and relentless settlement expansion. There are now half a million settlers in the West Bank despite Oslo. All Oslo has achieved is to create a collaborator police state to help Israel maintain its occupation and to divide the Palestinians. Abbas wants UN recognition so he can be dictator of his own bantustan. If Abbas gave a fig for Palestinian national rights he would have renounced Oslo long ago. At least then the reality of the occupation would be revealed instead of being hidden under this farce of "Palestinian self government.

 

[dylans]

I think that optimism rather falls flat on its face, when there is no Egyptian medical support and the Rafah crossing remains firmly shut (at least to my knowledge last night)

I know. I am in fact deeply pessimistic. As I said, we are grasping at straws. In reality, I think the Palestinians are doomed and heading towards the same fate as the Native American Indian.

 

[kebabking]

Do you think that it is a possability that Israel is using the attack from the Palastinians as a way of getting the army mobalised and ready for a attack/war with Iran, as they're calling up their army reservists of 30,000.

unlikely - the Israeli dependence on Reservists means that protracted conflicts harm their economy (no one is at work producing anything, so tax take falls, while reservists have to be paid etc...), so they aim to keep land based conflicts as short and violent as possible. i recall reading that they can do a full mobilisation for about 5 weeks, and then things start to fall apart.

it also fits into - and is a driver of - Israeli military posture: they don't have the population to fight large scale land wars, particularly given the populations of their neighbours, so they have to turn to 'force multipliers' to make themselves a match for, and then more capable than, their neighbours - and those 'force multipliers' are airpower, intelligence gathering, technological superiority, training superiority and pre-emptive strike.

with those they can wipe the floor with forces that, in number terms alone, should ride over them like they were a speed bump - but only if they fight on Israeli terms.

 

[Dan U]

i almost feel sorry for the BBC when stuff like this happens. people on the left give them shit - as on here - but a quick look at the comments section on sites like Guido or the Mail show even more people saying they are pro Palestinian - which even if you were neutral would seem a bizarre stance.

 

[teqniq]

"It's got to do with Iran" - Chief Rabbi caught off guard on the Today programme

There was an amusing moment on the Today programme this morning when, after delivering Thought For The Day, Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks was asked for his thoughts on the situation in Gaza. Not appearing to realise he was still on air, he sighed and replied candidly, "I think it's got to do with Iran, actually", prompting presenter Sarah Montague to whisper "we're live!"...

 

[ViolentPanda]

Mark Regev was on channel 4 news last night. What a fucking cunt.

Mate, you used too many words there. Just "Mark Regev, cunt" would have been fine!

 

[ViolentPanda]

I hope this isn't the case, I really do.

It'll be armour too, because they've learnt the lesson about sending foot soldiers into a free fire zone, which unfortunately means extra mobile heavy machine guns and light artillery.

 

[weepiper]

Egypt's prime minister calling the attacks 'a disaster' and Tunisia's foreign minister to visit Gaza on Saturday according to Al-jazeera's Cairo correspondent

 

[uk benzo]

I know. I am in fact deeply pessimistic. As I said, we are grasping at straws. In reality, I think the Palestinians are doomed and heading towards the same fate as the Native American Indian.

I am Palestinian.. and hearing that fucking hurts.

 

[DrRingDing]

Good demo last night outside the Israeli embassy. Over a thousands pro palestinian bods. and about 150 well protected pro Zionists.....with their own 'private' security plus added filth and a sprinkling of EDL.

 

[TomUS]

My guess is that Israel won't go for a ground invasion this time. They have little to gain by it & they risk much.......IDF casualties, captures, bad PR. The bombardment will probably continue for another week or so & Gaza will soon run low on rockets I'd guess. Netanyahu will get the election boost he wanted & then call off the attacks. I just hope central Tel Aviv isn't hit because Netanyahu would feel obligated to do a ground invasion in that case.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Interesting background on the upcoming election and why Netanyahu might be wishing to stir things up

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netany...srael-beytenu-promises-to-lead-with-strength/

Pair of worthless cunts. I don't expect anything better from either of them. Lieberman is a typical Russo-Israeli - rightwing as fuck, and racist too, and Fat Benny is probably the biggest opportunist in a political milieu replete with opportunists.
Odd how both of 'em (and millions of Israelis) retain their dual passports. You'd almost wonder, if you were a cynic, whether they were keeping their options open if their machinations meant that the state of Israel went tits-up.

 

[frogwoman]

"It's got to do with Iran" - Chief Rabbi caught off guard on the Today programme

i would have liked to see what he was going to say. been feeling a bit better about this whole issue recently especially because i went to synagogue (not under the chief rabbi btw) over the weekend and there was a photo exhibition on taken by one of the members on displaced people and refugees, mostly Jewish refugees but a couple of the pictures were of the gaza strip and the west bank. this would not have happened a few years ago. i think operation cast lead may have been bit of a turning point in that regard tbh.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If Israel is following the same strategy as cast lead then we can expect a ground assault after a week of air attacks. This is what happened last time. Cast lead had a number of strategic goals. The first was collective punishment and demoralisation of the population.(a war crime incidentally) This is accomplished by destroying infrastructure, raining down death and generally making life as miserable as possible for Gaza's population.

Destruction of infrastructure is also a war-crime. One sadly forgotten in just about every war after 1918.

 

[teqniq]

Speaking of photos The Electronic Intifada has this:

In photos: Israel attacks Gaza

 

[ViolentPanda]

I am Palestinian.. and hearing that fucking hurts.

It's exactly what Oslo was designed to do, though: Turn the Occupied Territories into reservations withe the minimum of diplomatic kerfuffle.

 

[teqniq]

IDFSpokesperson
Only stupid & gullible people would fall for reporting by some Western media organisations. Thankfully, most people are stupid and gullible

 

[ViolentPanda]

My guess is that Israel won't go for a ground invasion this time. They have little to gain by it & they risk much.......IDF casualties, captures, bad PR. The bombardment will probably continue for another week or so & Gaza will soon run low on rockets I'd guess. Netanyahu will get the election boost he wanted & then call off the attacks. I just hope central Tel Aviv isn't hit because Netanyahu would feel obligated to do a ground invasion in that case.

There's very little risk of capture if they don't deploy ground troops, and they're unlikely to do anything too dissimilar to what the British army did in Northern Ireland - deploy from APCs that will then keep pace with them for an entire patrol, scoop 'em up and take 'em home.
As for Netanyahu's obligations, what makes you think this is political or diplomatic to Fat Benny? This is about his hatred and his fixation on power, that's all.

 

[not-bono-ever]

I think its hard to comprehend how utterly fucking powerless the average Palestinan must feel, when his/her life and family can be randomly destroyed with no comback or reason, in a matter of seconds.

facile comment I know, but I dont think any of the vocal pro zionists outside the region can truly take this on board.

Just depresses me.

 

[DrRingDing]

Just depresses me.

Don't get depressed. Get active!

 

[Nylock]

I think its hard to comprehend how utterly fucking powerless the average Palestinan must feel, when his/her life and family can be randomly destroyed with no comback or reason, in a matter of seconds.

facile comment I know, but I dont think any of the vocal pro zionists outside the region can truly take this on board.

Just depresses me.

More depressingly is that they do probably acknowledge this, they just choose to not care...

 

[dylans]

I am Palestinian.. and hearing that fucking hurts.

I hear you. I wish, I really really wish I could be more optimistic but settlement continues relentlessly, the US shamelessly allows it, the Palestinian resistance is deeply divided and betrayed by its own leadership and of course, massively massively out gunned.

If there is hope it lies in the events in the Arab world over the past two years. This is where the Palestinian people must look for solidarity.

 

[likesfish]

drones are supposed to be superhard to shoot down

Its a glorified model aeroplane we used something similar for anti aircraft practice apprantly its scaled to the size and speed of a fast jet they are almost impossible to hit got into shit for shooting the engine out of it which was random luck rather than skill

 

[DotCommunist]

I'm struggling to remember this and google is no help atm (obvious reasons) but weren't the IDF at least held and withdrew in recent history when attempting a ground offensive?

 

[teqniq]

@DC I think you may be thinking about what happened to them the last time they went into Lebanon.

 

[dylans]

I'm struggling to remember this and google is no help atm (obvious reasons) but weren't the IDF at least held and withdrew in recent history when attempting a ground offensive?

In Lebanon during the 2006 Lebanon war. Hezbollah gave them a bloody nose.

 

[likesfish]

The israelis have the namer a 60 ton apc compared with a british army warrior thats 40 ton or the saracan of space hijacker fame and use in Ni thats 11 ton.
Designed to go in too gaza or the west bank and survive even the biggest ied.
The yanks love israel even obama has limited appeal on that one abd its not like isreal has ever listened to anyone,

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm struggling to remember this and google is no help atm (obvious reasons) but weren't the IDF at least held and withdrew in recent history when attempting a ground offensive?

Hezbollah tweaked their testes when they went into South Lebanon with armour. They had their Katushyas dug into caves and revetments, which made it muy difficult for the IAF to neutralise. Cometh the hour, the IDF were made to look very ineffective.