Yes, agreed. However, lots of teenagers, in fact the majority of teenagers, don't go around attacking other people, and that includes teenagers who do don't have "a wealth of excellent life opportunities" .
knife violence and murders among youth
- Thread starter DotCommunist
- Start date
Yes, that is certainly a sign of a government that thinks the people trust them.
Well I am surprised.
I think you will find that it is working class people selling drugs to other working class people & murdering them that is the problem. Are the stabbers all posh boys? No. Admit it is working class children stabbing other working class children that is the current problem. Or maybe it is people stabbing people regardless of which class they might think they are from.
Perhaps you should learn what the word means before demanding I stop using it.
bellaozzydog
rolling turds in glitter
Its OK Sajid has got this
Police furious after Sajid Javid tells them to ‘step up response’ to knife attacks in capital
London police furious after Sajid Javid tells them to ‘step up response’ to knife attacks in capital
Police furious after Sajid Javid tells them to ‘step up response’ to knife attacks in capital
London police furious after Sajid Javid tells them to ‘step up response’ to knife attacks in capital
OzT
Online early mornings when at work ....
I would have thought people growing up in the 50s, 60s and 70s had heapsa slum estates too to live in, in fact I would have thought the less well off in those days had less than they do now, in material pocessions. Food quality/quantity would have been poor, home entertainments wouldn't have been flat screen tellys or steroes, clothings usually hand me downs, and schools probably cared less then in those days. I would have thought life was much harder, and duller then too, also without prospects, and deffo without mobile phones and designer trainers. And yes drugs was available in those days, maybe not fashionable but enough hard and soft drugs were available. A lot of youths too in those days were also disenfranchised.
But teenagers then didn't go round stabbing each other, joining in gangs or initmdating the public. Of course there was trouble then, there is in every generation, just not the scale it seems to be now.
I have no solution, and though I have some idea why culture has now come to this, in some areas, I do not think a lack of public money, or even policing, is the main reason for the knife deaths.
But I do think it will get better, or maybe just hope it will. New role models for the kids will start springing out, and lead to a better life for all, specially to lead them away from a rather dead end life choice of gangs and knives.
But teenagers then didn't go round stabbing each other, joining in gangs or initmdating the public. Of course there was trouble then, there is in every generation, just not the scale it seems to be now.
I have no solution, and though I have some idea why culture has now come to this, in some areas, I do not think a lack of public money, or even policing, is the main reason for the knife deaths.
But I do think it will get better, or maybe just hope it will. New role models for the kids will start springing out, and lead to a better life for all, specially to lead them away from a rather dead end life choice of gangs and knives.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
OzT
Online early mornings when at work ....
No, I didn't say there were no gangs in those days. Just not at prevelant than now. I get the feeling, maybe wrongly, that it is almost common place for knifings now a days. A lad that used to hang round my station here, 15 years old, was a bit mouthy but no more than you'd expect from any lad, was killed a couple of weeks ago by some other lads from down the road. I don't think that woudl have happened back then. Maybe a good thumping, but the almost careless use of weapons seems common now, as to the earlier times I was mentioning.
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
I am not demanding that you stop using it.
It is your choice but to me it just reinforces your superiority complex.
I am sure if you went round talking to these stabby teenagers that the problem would be solved.
What working class community do you actually live in?
Do you want my mother’s maiden name too?
OzT
Online early mornings when at work ....
I often get prople handing over their cards to me when they get a ticket from me, I ask them then for the 4 numbers and their mother's maiden name . . . . . luckily it usually ends up with a laugh
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
No. I would like you to explain why you think you are better than the lumpen who you keep going on about. What makes you special?
I’m not a parasite on the community by selling drugs to my neighbours kids or stabbing them to death. In fact no different than most decent folk, nothing ‘special’ about it.
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
So you are no different from your "lumpen" neighbours?
I’m not sure if you’re simply not reading my posts or are being deliberately obtuse.
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
I am asking a simple question. What makes you better than your lumpen neighbours?
I answered in post #192. I don’t believe I’ve suggested my neighbours are lumpen. I’ve said dealers are.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Has "working class" become a euphemism for "black"?
Treacle Toes
Time
No, some people around here usually use it as a euphemism for 'White'.
Well I don’t.
I am confused about that too.
Yeah, because liberals never see minorities in terms of class so it causes a brain spasm when anyone talks about them in those terms.
Really?
. Oh wrong. But a useful way to split people.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Now I understand the constant ire about 'liberals'. It's because you're a fucking 1950's tory.
Fine. Whatever it pleases you to say.
For real? The only people this shit affects are ‘fucking 1950s tories’? Perhaps everyone should suck it up because Spooky Frank that doesn’t live there has spoken.
ska invita
back on the other side
OzT
Then theres gangs:
---
worth reading this long post London Street Gangs Blog: London Gangs (Mobs) & Firms Before the 1950s
extract:
London Gangs (Mobs) & Firms Before the 1950s
The 1700's to 1940
In the 1700's and 1800's London was plagued with crime and gangs. During this time it would have been considered the gang capital of the world. As the city grew and expanded outwards the wealthier residents moved into the suburbs leaving only the most deprived in the central areas to fend for themselves. Prostitution, robbery, pick-pocketing and protection rackteering were amongst the most common crimes. Children as young as 10 could face capital punishment for crimes as petty as thievery. There were a mix of gangs, usually known as mobs, who claimed territory - usually a stretch of street - and often took their name from their territory (i.e. Elephant & Castle Boys). There were also a number of crime families who operated in districts surrounding what is today known as the 'City of London'.
In the East End alone it was estimated that a third of the population lived below the poverty line and 50% of children born their died before the age of 5. Most of the gangs and families listed below were active between the late 1800's and up to 1940. By 1937 the police and government identified what were London's most gang infested districts, they were Hackney & Hoxton, the East End (referring to Tower Hamlets & Newham), north London (Islington, Camden & Tottenham), north east London (referring to Stratford, Leytonstone, Leyton) and the West End which was being carved up by organised firms from across the city.
Up to as many as 70 gangs battled on London streets from the 1900's onwards. Gun battles, stabbings, teen on teen killings, colours and gang identities, sub-cliques, rivalries and alliances were all common features of the old Gangs of London. The social disorganisation theory holds true, with many of the affected areas still suffering from gangs today (some even have the same names).
The book "Gangs of London" by Brian McDonald chronicles the gang histoies (click here to buy book or see more details). Below are excerpts from the chapter "Street Gangs" (NB: below is copyright of Brian McDonald 2010; this piece may have to be removed at short notice if requested by the author whose contact details we could not obtain).
Brian McDonald; "Street Gangs" (excerpts from the Gangs of London, 2010, p.59-72)
----
As posted up thread government stats show knife killings are a fair bit down on on early 2000 and mid 1990s, and not much up from 1980s
definitely. I watched a thing about kids street games of 30s-50s or so. All kids played out doors all the time until the rise of the car in the 60s, and there was full on turf war. Kids would have a patch of about 6-8 streets lets say, and stray over that border and youd get a beating. And thats not gang stuff, thats everyone basically.
Then theres gangs:
---
worth reading this long post London Street Gangs Blog: London Gangs (Mobs) & Firms Before the 1950s
extract:
London Gangs (Mobs) & Firms Before the 1950s
The 1700's to 1940
In the 1700's and 1800's London was plagued with crime and gangs. During this time it would have been considered the gang capital of the world. As the city grew and expanded outwards the wealthier residents moved into the suburbs leaving only the most deprived in the central areas to fend for themselves. Prostitution, robbery, pick-pocketing and protection rackteering were amongst the most common crimes. Children as young as 10 could face capital punishment for crimes as petty as thievery. There were a mix of gangs, usually known as mobs, who claimed territory - usually a stretch of street - and often took their name from their territory (i.e. Elephant & Castle Boys). There were also a number of crime families who operated in districts surrounding what is today known as the 'City of London'.
In the East End alone it was estimated that a third of the population lived below the poverty line and 50% of children born their died before the age of 5. Most of the gangs and families listed below were active between the late 1800's and up to 1940. By 1937 the police and government identified what were London's most gang infested districts, they were Hackney & Hoxton, the East End (referring to Tower Hamlets & Newham), north London (Islington, Camden & Tottenham), north east London (referring to Stratford, Leytonstone, Leyton) and the West End which was being carved up by organised firms from across the city.
Up to as many as 70 gangs battled on London streets from the 1900's onwards. Gun battles, stabbings, teen on teen killings, colours and gang identities, sub-cliques, rivalries and alliances were all common features of the old Gangs of London. The social disorganisation theory holds true, with many of the affected areas still suffering from gangs today (some even have the same names).
The book "Gangs of London" by Brian McDonald chronicles the gang histoies (click here to buy book or see more details). Below are excerpts from the chapter "Street Gangs" (NB: below is copyright of Brian McDonald 2010; this piece may have to be removed at short notice if requested by the author whose contact details we could not obtain).
Brian McDonald; "Street Gangs" (excerpts from the Gangs of London, 2010, p.59-72)
----
As posted up thread government stats show knife killings are a fair bit down on on early 2000 and mid 1990s, and not much up from 1980s
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Violence among young people is not just a problem in London. And it certainly isn't a problem of people simply failing to live up to the standard of decency set by the likes of you. The opposite really, it's a problem that comes from large chunks of society being written off as inherently bad by those who don't wish to feel responsible for the ills of a society they're part of.
There are many ways to be a parasite. Many ways to be a parasite and still be a 'decent person' so long as you dress right, talk right, and make enough money doing it.
Nobody here has a problem condemning wealthy parasites, it just becomes an issue when it’s those amongst us in our own communities. It’s fucking bizarre tbh.
I think we should expect more from our police even if stop and search isn’t a big part of it. Young men (and some young women) are being stabbed at an appalling, frankly barely believable rate, in London. It should be one of the polices absolute priorities to deal with- what could be more important?!
If I was a parent in London I’d be wanting the police to announcing a very clear well researched strategy to deal with it, and then do it. If that’s taking elements of the Glasgow plan (which sounds excellent) then crack on. Disrupt the gangs, move problem individuals/families, go into schools, more coppers on the streets.
Surely this is just a whatever it takes situation? Kids are being stabbed to death on a weekly or even daily basis, an entire generation of young men can’t feel safe in their own communities, are growing up with their brothers/mates/classmates being stabbed as just something that happens?! They deserve better, we really must be demanding better for those young men.
If I was a parent in London I’d be wanting the police to announcing a very clear well researched strategy to deal with it, and then do it. If that’s taking elements of the Glasgow plan (which sounds excellent) then crack on. Disrupt the gangs, move problem individuals/families, go into schools, more coppers on the streets.
Surely this is just a whatever it takes situation? Kids are being stabbed to death on a weekly or even daily basis, an entire generation of young men can’t feel safe in their own communities, are growing up with their brothers/mates/classmates being stabbed as just something that happens?! They deserve better, we really must be demanding better for those young men.
8ball
Check your privet hedge
In that case the solution is very simple - incarcerate all men between the ages of 15 and 34.
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