Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Well that's half way there!
I'm going to bed.
I think you should have a word with Orang Utan about deterrence.
Sara Sharif murder: ‘sadist’ father and stepmother jailed for life
- Thread starter Petcha
- Start date
Well that's half way there!
I'm going to bed.
I think you should have a word with Orang Utan about deterrence.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I think there is more to it than that, it's about reinforcing standards of acceptable behaviour both legal and illegal.
Punishing the CEO reinforces the ideas that it is wrong to take things that aren't yours, it's wrong for those in positions of authority to use it for their own ends. It establishes that these behaviours are not socially acceptable. It's not about stopping people doing certain things because they might be punished for it, but because they think it's wrong to do those things.
Just to throw a random though I have, I think one of the problems with discussing punishment is that we treat crime as one thing, but it really isn't. If we ask the question of why should someone be punished I don't think that question has the same answer for Urfan Sharif as it would for a habitual shoplifter. So I think the first step should be to establish what sort of crime we are talking about.
And another of my random thoughts, on deterrence. I don't know if there is data to back this up but I imagine it works better for low level crimes. I don't think anyone has ever held back from killing someone just because of the possible punishment. But it might stop otherwise law biding people from speeding or shoplifting.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
I don't think prison is the right punishment in these cases. I think they should be stripped of their wealth and forced to work in McDonald's on minimum wage until the debt is repaid.
LeytonCatLady
Well-Known Member
I once worked three days at Shake Shack before jacking it in and half a day at Wendy's. Can confirm that would be cruel and unusual punishment!
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
What if they refuse to, or do it so incompetently -- deliberately or not -- that McDonald's doesn't want them?
Also, they're hardly likely to pay back anything on minimum wage. But maybe that's what you intended.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
You would think that but I'm sure their entrepreneurial spirt will allow them to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and pay it off in a few short years.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Ah well. Keep working then, because you have to, like most people.
Also, prisons would not have been abolished completely. If they refuse, they have the option of going to prison alongside the violent offenders. A decent incentive to flip those burgers correctly.
I wouldn't use McD as my typical example. There are lots of other things they can do. We have a shortage of carers for the elderly, for example. If they're suitable for that, they can do that.
Doing this raises other problems, such as the suppression of wages of those already working in these sectors. Would need managing carefully, and would require a good minimum wage. As ever, one change in society is only really possible alongside others as part of a holistic plan.
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
We already have a large number of carers for the elderly whom I wouldn't trust to walk and fart at the same time. Do you really think that forcing criminals into the profession is a good idea? Particularly those already guilty of financial fraud? You're handing them an opportunity for fraud on a plate.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Not my experience with the various carers I've encountered in the last few years. Good bunch of people, by and large - badly underpaid for the important work they do but they nonetheless do it conscientiously. Of course there will be excpetions, but I haven't met them, and I've met a fair few now through my parents.
Clearly assessments would need to be made as to who might be a risk of committing further crimes and where they might best be placed. If they can't safely be placed anywhere, that means they're someone who really does need to go to a prison. The option of working to pay off your debt to society would be a privilege, though, one that could be revoked with prejudice if it is abused.
ETA:
(The problem would more be: would you like to have a conscientious carer from Nigeria who is very happy to have the job and does it well or a convicted shyster who has to do this to avoid going to jail. That's the tricky issue here, not the untrustworthiness of current carers, which is bollocks anyway. It may be that being a carer would not be suitable for many.)
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Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Have any you lot actually done community service? It's just a group standing around in orange vests looking for shit to steal.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
This wouldn't be that, though. It would be an option to take over a much longer timescale when the alternative would be a long stretch inside.
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