knife violence and murders among youth

[Magnus McGinty]

Edie he doesn’t understand because he’s forming a theoretical argument not born from living and working with the working class and what they think.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

You're full of fail. You bluster away and fart out guff about they can do more but when questioned about what you'd like to see then do you cannot say. Pisspoor. Doesn't need explaining? It's that your bluff's been called and there's nothing to show.

You haven’t a clue because you’re not one of us.

 

[Pickman's model]

You.

By no means. I have said there is no policing solution to this. And there isn't, as you have recognised. This does not mean no role for the police. It means that this has to be dealt with by a host of agencies, as in Scotland, rather than as we do in England as a criminal issue.

 

[Pickman's model]

You haven’t a clue because you’re not one of us.

I haven't a clue what you think the police should do because you refuse to say. You always pull this card out the pack when you can't argue the point.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I haven't a clue what you think the police should do because you refuse to say. You always pull this card out the pack when you can't argue the point.

I’m coming from a wc position based on what people actually think in those communities. You’re coming from the mc position of telling me why I’m wrong. Same as it ever was.

 

[Edie]

By no means. I have said there is no policing solution to this. And there isn't, as you have recognised. This does not mean no role for the police. It means that this has to be dealt with by a host of agencies, as in Scotland, rather than as we do in England as a criminal issue.

I really can’t be arsed to play silly semantics. Of course policing is part of the solution, therefore the police have a role. Who do you think I called when my son was being threatened by 15 yo arsewipes and my tyres where done one night? The school policeman. And for the record he was brilliant, and didn’t go in like a bull in a china shop but actually discussed with me what felt best/safe.

I know it’s not the same as London, and it’s awful that these young lads are caught up in gangs (mine was just local shitheads being stupid kids). And it’s awful what Rutita1 says about how if you’re black that community just doesn’t even have that option.

But the police do have a role, most people want them to have a role and more of a role. But yes, I do get that they don’t hold the solution and less poverty and more hope and stronger communities are the actual solution.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It’s literally no different to Trot central committees.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

You always pull this card out the pack when you can't argue the point.

And how do you think it feels like for me when someone who has superior education ignores my points in favour of an easy win against that disadvantage?

 

[Pickman's model]

I’m coming from a wc position based on what people actually think in those communities. You’re coming from the mc position of telling me why I’m wrong. Same as it ever was.

Yeh. Now, if that's the case then please tell me what more you'd have the police do because it's plainly supremely obvious to you. As for this violence happening in wc areas, and not wealthier areas, it shouldn't come as much surprise being as it was reported a day or two back that the majority of knife crime happens when kids have just finished school, when they're on their way home. I don't think the police are containing anything, they're out of their depth on this knife crime thing, and while they may respond rapidly to something happening in eg hampstead it's a response, not a prevention. All any police response can be is something like stop and search, something reactive, something that's just responding to symptoms rather than attacking the driving forces. If you think the cops can do something more please tell me what as it's not at all clear to me.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I haven't a clue what you think the police should do because you refuse to say. You always pull this card out the pack when you can't argue the point.

Incredible how his lived experience is really important but when others talk about theirs he dismisses it. Just like he claims no one here/the liberals care about Ireland or have a position on the situation there but he cares so much he doesn't post on any of the Ireland threads.

 

[Pickman's model]

And how do you think it feels like for me when someone who has superior education ignores my points in favour of an easy win against that disadvantage?

there's never an easy win with you! I don't think my education makes me in any way superior to you, might be better working in a library than you but that's about all.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I really can’t be arsed to play silly semantics. Of course policing is part of the solution, therefore the police have a role. Who do you think I called when my son was being threatened by 15 yo arsewipes and my tyres where done one night? The school policeman. And for the record he was brilliant, and didn’t go in like a bull in a china shop but actually discussed with me what felt best/safe.

I know it’s not the same as London, and it’s awful that these young lads are caught up in gangs (mine was just local shitheads being stupid kids). And it’s awful what Rutita1 says about how if you’re black that community just doesn’t even have that option.

But the police do have a role, most people want them to have a role and more of a role. But yes, I do get that they don’t hold the solution and less poverty and more hope and stronger communities are the actual solution.

I 'm not sure which point of mine you are responding to here Edie, can you quote it for me?

I want to come back to this thread to add some more personal stuff at some point. Just need to shake the working week off a little more as I am feeling a bit frazzled.

I liked your post about your boys, the level of violence at their school, how their mates' mum is dealing with her fear for them with being so restrictive about what they can and can't do. It echos a lot of what my friends/neighbours are having to do with their teenage boys and to some extent girls.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Incredible how his lived experience is really important but when others talk about theirs he dismisses it. Just like he claims no one here/the liberals care about Ireland or have a position on the situation there but he cares so much he doesn't post on any of the Ireland threads.

I’m giving the perspective of many. Not ‘me’.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

there's never an easy win with you! I don't think my education makes me in any way superior to you, might be better working in a library than you but that's about all.

You’re digging into points that are obvious to me / everyone else for me to explain. Seriously, it shows you as out of touch.

 

[Pickman's model]

You’re digging into points that are obvious to me / everyone else for me to explain. Seriously, it shows you as out of touch.

Yeh. If they were really that obvious you'd have said x y z, can't you see Pickman's, it's as simple as 1 2 3, that education of yours didn't do you much good irl did it, or words to that effect.

 

[butchersapron]

You’re digging into points that are obvious to me / everyone else for me to explain. Seriously, it shows you as out of touch.

All your posts over the last few months are mental.

 

[butchersapron]

You've been posting like some white choudrey.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yeh. If they were really that obvious you'd have said x y z, can't you see Pickman's, it's as simple as 1 2 3, that education of yours didn't do you much good irl did it, or words to that effect.

It’s surprising that drug dealing / murders are contained to poorer areas? I’m sure drug use happens everywhere. Even on Royal estates.

 

[Edie]

I 'm not sure which point of mine you are responding to here Edie, can you quote it for me?

I want to come back to this thread to add some more personal stuff at some point. Just need to shake the working week off a little more as I am feeling a bit frazzled.

I liked your post about your boys, the level of violence at their school, how their mates' mum is dealing with her fear for them with being so restrictive about what they can and can't do. It echos a lot of what my friends/neighbours are having to do with their teenage boys and to some extent girls.

It wasn’t specifically anything you said. But I watched that video you posted about The Talk that black parents give their sons about how to react when the police stop them, and how the police are a threat to them. And honestly? That is just not my experience because frankly I’m white. And it just really struck a cord with me how awful it must be to have the police themselves as an additional actual threat to your sons if you’re from the black community. Like everyone I will avoid the police where at all possible and they make me nervous in the way all authority (social services included) do. But I know that if or when I do interact with them, or my kids do, they are not biased against me before I open my mouth. On the whole I find them one to one decent people, that’s my experience.

Damn I’m wording this badly. Does any of that make sense? The young black men getting stabbed have both the fear of random deadly violence and the fear of police violence to contend with. That’s not right is all I’m saying.

 

[butchersapron]

Oops, both above to magnus.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Oops, both above to magnus.

Possibly. I run with all sorts for fun really. I want to know what people think. But there’s some seriousness within it. It’s a testing ground for positions.

 

[Treacle Toes]

It wasn’t specifically anything you said. But I watched that video you posted about The Talk that black parents give their sons about how to react when the police stop them, and how the police are a threat to them. And honestly? That is just not my experience because frankly I’m white. And it just really struck a cord with me how awful it must be to have the police themselves as an additional actual threat to your sons if you’re from the black community. Like everyone I will avoid the police where at all possible and they make me nervous in the way all authority (social services included) do. But I know that if or when I do interact with them, or my kids do, they are not biased against me before I open my mouth. On the whole I find them one to one decent people, that’s my experience.

Damn I’m wording this badly. Does any of that make sense? The young black men getting stabbed have both the fear of random deadly violence and the fear of police violence to contend with. That’s not right is all I’m saying.

Thanks for explaining, yes it makes sense.

 

[planetgeli]

You've been posting like some white choudrey.

Anjem? (Choudary) Surely not the CEO of Bestway, Zameer (Choudrey)? God forbid Sabah, #queer, brown, hairy, trans, Muslim?

 

[Cid]

Possibly. I run with all sorts for fun really. I want to know what people think. But there’s some seriousness within it. It’s a testing ground for positions.

Positions that are too obvious for you to bother setting out?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Positions that are too obvious for you to bother setting out?

I learn from debate. Don’t we all?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Positions that are too obvious for you to bother setting out?

And that will be done politically, not on here.

 

[Cid]

So... It's not a testing ground then.

Fuck it, dunno why I'm bothering.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Not sure how you arrived at that from what I said.

 

[Cid]

You just repeatedly contradicted yourself, read your own posts...

At this point I have to just assume you're taking the piss and leave you to it.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yeah, maybe do that then.