Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
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teqniq
DisMembered
No better from Yvette Cooper. They are likely waiting to take their cue from Washington:Our PM - former DPP, one of the finest legal minds in the country
and Biden's response to the arrest warrants is fairly predictable:
Israel Gaza: Netanyahu ICC war crimes arrest warrant 'outrageous' says Biden
US President Joe Biden calls the issuing of warrants against Israeli officials including Benjamin Netanyahu "outrageous".
www.bbc.com
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
No better from Yvette Cooper. They are likely waiting to take their cue from Washington:
and Biden's response to the arrest warrants is fairly predictable:
Israel Gaza: Netanyahu ICC war crimes arrest warrant 'outrageous' says Biden
US President Joe Biden calls the issuing of warrants against Israeli officials including Benjamin Netanyahu "outrageous".www.bbc.com
I think the point is that they have already taken their cue from Washington; this is it.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
He no longer has a certificate to practiceOur PM - former DPP, one of the finest legal minds in the country
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
No better from Yvette Cooper. They are likely waiting to take their cue from Washington:
and Biden's response to the arrest warrants is fairly predictable:
Israel Gaza: Netanyahu ICC war crimes arrest warrant 'outrageous' says Biden
US President Joe Biden calls the issuing of warrants against Israeli officials including Benjamin Netanyahu "outrageous".www.bbc.com
TBF the answer from a Labour party MP doesn't surprise me.
It's the line they have been taking. Not following US but trying for a centre ground approach.
Of course when it comes to Ukraine that's different
Britain welcomes issuing of arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin
The International Criminal Court has acted over the alleged abduction and deportation of thousands of Ukrainian children.
www.standard.co.uk
Starmer on Putin arrest warrant,
He applauded arrest warrant for Putin.
little_legs
Поехали!
Prime Minister, given the developments with the genocide arrest warrant against Netanyahu, and your providing intelligence and weapons for this genocide, what are your plans to preserve your own personal safety when justice comes for you?
little_legs
Поехали!
"Defense Minister Katz has informed the Shin Bet that he will stop approving administrative detention orders for Jews in the west bank: 'it's inappropriate for Israel to take such severe measures against the settlers'"
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
TBF the answer from a Labour party MP doesn't surprise me.
It's the line they have been taking. Not following US but trying for a centre ground approach.
Of course when it comes to Ukraine that's different
Britain welcomes issuing of arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin
The International Criminal Court has acted over the alleged abduction and deportation of thousands of Ukrainian children.
Starmer on Putin arrest warrant,
He applauded arrest warrant for Putin.
Yeh but it's different when it's his mates they're coming after
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
TBF the answer from a Labour party MP doesn't surprise me.
It's the line they have been taking. Not following US but trying for a centre ground approach.
Of course when it comes to Ukraine that's different
Britain welcomes issuing of arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin
The International Criminal Court has acted over the alleged abduction and deportation of thousands of Ukrainian children.
Starmer on Putin arrest warrant,
He applauded arrest warrant for Putin.
The whole world sees these double-standards.
The last mainstream politician in power in Britain who I can think of that had even a tiny bit of credibility was Robin Cook. People scoffed when he spoke about an ethical foreign policy, but the intention was genuine. And he had time for this spat with Netanyahu back in 1998. British Foreign Secretaries have not always been as supine as Lammy.
Netanyahu Angrily Cancels Dinner With Visiting Briton (Published 1998)
But since Cook? A continuous stream of absolute shits.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
But let's not forget what happened with new labour the last time a fascist former leader was arrested in the UK
PTK
Paul Kegan
That Pinochet was arrested was a major credit to the Blair government. That he was released was a discredit. The effect in Chile was positive, in that it acted to lessen the fear of bringing murderers and torturers and rapists to justice.
ska invita
back on the other side
The majority of Israeli surveillance flights are by British military, Al Jaz reports. Utterly complicit, never mind the arms sales
ska invita
back on the other side
Tbf the whole political world has seen those double standards for as long as memories go back ... No state is surprised or had to change their perspective
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Good point.
This is where International law gets political.
I need to read more but one argument is about ICC jurisdiction.
Palestine is not a state.
But its now accepted that ICC does have jurisdiction due to acts taking place in the occupied territories.
I read Noura Erakat book recently on international law and Palestine.
Unlike crimes that take place in a nation state by an individual where the state is the supreme authority a lot of international agreements on lawful war etc there is no supreme authority to enforce them. If say I murder someone in my own county the State will put me on trial etc.
With a lot of international law there is no world government to enforce law. So its up to individual states to work individually or together to make say the convention on Genocide actually mean something. Or the ICC warrants to be put into practise and not just be well meaning decisions.
So she makes a distinction between rule of law within a state and the international arena.
In some ways the international arena is where law is political. Not in a cynical sense but one where as she puts it legal work on both sides and strategic use of law is how it works
Why its infuriating that our present government , who have people in leading positions who are well versed in law, taking position that its not up to us. We will take a neutral position.
That's not only a cop out its knowingly not being active to support international agreements this country has signed up to. And unless the politicians who run this country are idiots they now full well this is the case. And its what they should be dong.
As Erakat points points out its in the area of international law on war and genocide that this is exactly what a country should not do. It should not sit there and say no comment. As our Labour government is doing. It should be pro active. Saying what it will do to back up ICC
UK should be taking a pro active position
A prime example of a country taking a pro active position is South Africa.
Its looking at international agreements and law and saying yes lets try and make this work.
A rules based order only works if individual states back it up.
USA and UK aren't dong that in their own different ways.
In fact Id say they are opposing it.
Thus imo they are facilitating genocide by inaction
Last edited:
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
As of June 2024, the State of Palestine is recognized as a sovereign state by 146 of the 193 member states of the United Nations, or just over 75% of all UN members. It has been a non-member observer state of the United Nations General Assembly since November 2012.
PTK
Paul Kegan
The definition of a state does not depend on recognition by other states. When I was a child, the People's Republic of China was not recognised by many states, including the UK and the USA, and was not allowed to be a member of the United Nations.
PTK
Paul Kegan
That does not change the fact that Palestine is not a state. It does not have any agreed borders, does not have an army, and is not sovereign on any land.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
And the other thing about the arrest warrants and anti semitism.
An argument goes even if one is not openly anti Semitic a sign of it is picking out Israel in particular
Leading legal minds have now agreed to arrest warrants for two leading members of the Israel state and one ( who may or not be dead ) Hamas leading member,
So imo Israel is being treated just the same as say Putin in Russia.
Its not that Israel is being unfairly picked on.
An argument goes even if one is not openly anti Semitic a sign of it is picking out Israel in particular
Leading legal minds have now agreed to arrest warrants for two leading members of the Israel state and one ( who may or not be dead ) Hamas leading member,
So imo Israel is being treated just the same as say Putin in Russia.
Its not that Israel is being unfairly picked on.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
TBF the answer from a Labour party MP doesn't surprise me.
It's the line they have been taking. Not following US but trying for a centre ground approach.
Of course when it comes to Ukraine that's different
Britain welcomes issuing of arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin
The International Criminal Court has acted over the alleged abduction and deportation of thousands of Ukrainian children.
Starmer on Putin arrest warrant,
He applauded arrest warrant for Putin.
She's the Home Secretary , a post of which I got the impression was responsible for law enforcement
PTK
Paul Kegan
There has been a claim that the ICC is racist, because the people it took action against had all been from states in Africa. To act against the State of Israel would go some way to rebutting this accusation.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
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