Freemasons in the UK, a general discussion

[1%er]

I don't think that you established that.

Well lets see. Do you think that all workingclass masons are rich, those that are bus drivers, train drivers, painters etc?

 

[Spymaster]

FWIW, i know shit all about lodges, but when i was growing up a lot of my friends' parents in gants hill were freemasons. the men in question were all taxi drivers, jewish, not affluent really.

Cab drivers have traditionally been well represented in freemasonry. Publicans and brickies in metropolitan lodges too though I can't remember why, but this notion that all freemasons are rich is absolute horseshit and shows a total lack of understanding.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I can see butchers' point, I think. Simply gaining membership requires a form of social capital. And being a member gives more.

 

[butchersapron]

Well lets see. Do you think that all workingclass masons are rich, those that are bus drivers, train drivers, painters etc?

No i don't. Now what?

 

[1%er]

I can see butchers' point, I think. Simply gaining membership requires a form of social capital. And being a member gives more.

Gaining membership means turning up at the lodge and asking, some people will get in others will not, just like and membership club.

 

[butchersapron]

Well lets see. Do you think that all workingclass masons are rich, those that are bus drivers, train drivers, painters etc?

Who owns them clubs?

 

[1%er]

No i don't. Now what?

Now you have answered your own question.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Cab drivers have traditionally been well represented in freemasonry. Publicans and brickies in metropolitan lodges too though I can't remember why, but this notion that all freemasons are rich is absolute horseshit and shows a total lack of understanding.

Self-employed types? Not surprising, perhaps, that people who work for themselves in some way may seek a join a wider organisation.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Gaining membership means turning up at the lodge and asking, some people will get in others will not, just like and membership club.

Not quite just like any membership club. I can go and join a snooker club by filling out a form and paying a fee. I don't have to get two current members to propose me.

 

[1%er]

Self-employed types? Not surprising, perhaps, that people who work for themselves in some way may seek a join a wider organisation.

Like a trade union

 

[butchersapron]

Now you have answered your own question.

That's how great i am. strivers being masons?

 

[cesare]

http://www.wmciu.org.uk/Join/Member/member.html

It's not just the bloody masons that need sponsorship from current members.

 

[1%er]

Not quite just like any membership club. I can go and join a snooker club by filling out a form and paying a fee. I don't have to get two current members to propose me.

If you are really interested go to a lodge and speak to people, I am sure you will find them very welcoming. As far as I am aware Freemasons affiliated to UGLE do not recruit and that most new members nowadays are people who have no friends that are masons, they just walk in.

 

[free spirit]

I am sure you could walk into many churches and the people would admit to child abuse with-in the church.

maybe now, as it's all come out. If you'd done the same thing in the early 90s you'd have almost certainly met with a wall of outright denial.

Is it really naive to tell you to go and speak to the people who are masons, do you have any understanding of how lodges are set up and how they meet and interact with other lodges? Everything you could ever want to know about Masons affiliated to UGLE and there rituals can be found very easily via the internet.

does the fact I'm quoting directly from their membership rules found on the grand lodge website, and have previously quoted from the north wales lodge website not give you a wee hint that I've actually done a reasonable amount of research into their rules, structures and membership?

and yes, you're being hopelessly naive by suggesting that anything like the historic cover up of child abuse in an organisation such as the masons could in any way be uncovered by me going to my local lodge and asking them some questions. It's a ridiculous suggestion tbh, and shows a complete lack of knowledge of how similar situations have finally been forced out into the open in other organisations.

This deserves a full independent criminal inquiry by dedicated child protection officers where all members are fully vetted to remove any members with Freemason links from the inquiry, with criminal charges being laid against any Freemasons found to have acted improperly to prevent paedophiles from facing criminal charges, as well as the actual paedophiles themselves.

If this inquiry uncovers no evidence, then fair enough, but at least then the accusations would have been fully investigated instead of being ignored and brushed under the carpet as has been the case for the last 2 decades.

 

[1%er]

That's how great i am. strivers being masons?

Use the force and become a jedi I'm am sure it would be much more fun

 

[butchersapron]

If you are really interested go to a lodge and speak to people, I am sure you will find them very welcoming. As far as I am aware Freemasons affiliated to UGLE do not recruit and that most new members nowadays are people who have no friends that are masons, they just walk in.

Everything is fine. It's always been fine.

 

[1%er]

Everything is fine.

It is here, the sun is shining and the beer is cold

 

[Citizen66]

What I find interesting about what folk are saying here, is that lodges are formed based on your occupation and, by extension, your social standing. So it seems unhelpful to lump freemasons as one homogenous block. Just because there's a freemason lodge that acts as a drinking club for miners doesn't mean that freemasons are therefore a benign organisation. Because it seems the whole scratch each others back thing has class division in that those who actually yield power are ensured to only share a lodge with those who also yield power.

 

[newbie]

thanks to Spymaster & VP for the explanations, and other people for their conjectures.

according to someone i know who is connected to the people who did that, the freemasonry sign there is because the vandals believe that savile was protected by his freemasonry connections.

interesting: are these people loons, looking for freemasons under the bed, or are they well connected locally and likely to have first or second hand understanding?

It's well documented that Savile was involved with the Knights of Malta, which is a catholic organisation, and was a papal knight. I've not found anything to persuasive to say he was a freemason, although there's a lot of loon sites that want me to believe he was.

Whilst freemasonry is happy with catholics it seems from this handy timeline that it's only since 1983 that catholics haven't been threatened with excommunication for joining the masons. Now they just get punished with an interdict because "the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and, therefore, membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful, who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion." That's signed by one JOSEPH Card. RATZINGER of the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, who presumably knows what he's on about.

So I'm a bit doubtful Savile was himself a freemason. Why do these guys think he was protected by freemasons?

 

[Citizen66]

Because it fits in with illuminati style narrative that they want to shoe horn everything in to.

 

[newbie]

its by the same crude hand that has daubed 'Jimmy The Beast' on the other bit of the house.

whut?

the same hand? maybe but the symbol is quite carefully done, it's detailed and more or less symmetrically arranged in the available space. The words are all scrawled, don't fit the space, have paint run and give the appearance being done in a hurry by someone not particularly bothered about being careful.

This is a thread about people who take symbolism seriously.

 

[elbows]

Because it fits in with illuminati style narrative that they want to shoe horn everything in to.

Indeed. Part of the reason I started this thread is that some of the paedo research brings me into contact with sites ranging from the NWO Icke wibblers to those with a more old fashioned right-wing paranoic worldview. The freemasons have long been part of their sloppy mix, and the pyramid eye symbol has received a lot of attention from those who fancy foaming about sinister symbolism more than any proper analysis of power and institutions.

 

[DotCommunist]

whut?

the same hand? maybe but the symbol is quite carefully done, it's detailed and more or less symmetrically arranged in the available space. The words are all scrawled, don't fit the space, have paint run and give the appearance being done in a hurry by someone not particularly bothered about being careful.

This is a thread about people who take symbolism seriously.

no it isn't you can see on the left hand edge where they have gone over the margins and the bottom line is thicker like it had to be re-done. Same paint as well.

 

[DotCommunist]

and the person painting it takes symbolism about as seriously as me when I draw a cock on the toilet walls in biro

 

[1%er]

What I find interesting about what folk are saying here, is that lodges are formed based on your occupation and, by extension, your social standing. So it seems unhelpful to lump freemasons as one homogenous block. Just because there's a freemason lodge that acts as a drinking club for miners doesn't mean that freemasons are therefore a benign organisation. Because it seems the whole scratch each others back thing has class division in that those who actually yield power are ensured to only share a lodge with those who also yield power.

But that has historical been the case from the very beginning of freemasonry. Nowadays I think lodges are far more mixed.

What may be interesting for some here to understand is that UGLE only really knows what the minutes of a meeting say happened, they have no idea what goes on inside the lodge, they expect it to be ritual. Lodges all have visiting officers of grand rank but then a lodge could easily hide anything at those meetings. So it is conceivable that a group of peados who were also masons could set up a lodge, if they could find the numbers needed. Personally I think it would be a very hard thing to do or keep secret.

What makes the GRAND Freemason conspiracy hard to take seriously is the structure of Lodges with-in freemasonry, they are all independent. Lodge secretaries provide the name of lodge members but not there addresses to UGLE (there are subscription lists and donation lists that have addresses, but not everyone subscribes to newsletters or makes donations outside the lodge). The only other information they provide are accounts and minutes. No one has access to a list of Freemasons names and addresses, because there is no list as far as I am aware.

 

[Spymaster]

I reckon this graffiti was done by the local Womens Institute.

I mean, it's pretty tame stuff isn't it?

"Jimmy The Beast"

Not a "nonce", "cunt", or "bastard" in sight, no smashed windows, and a neat little Eye of Providence.

It looks like the work of the Girl Guides.

 

[newbie]

no it isn't you can see on the left hand edge where they have gone over the margins and the bottom line is thicker like it had to be re-done. Same paint as well.

I can see that the bottom edge looks like it was redone- that's part of the care I mentioned. Whoever painted it wanted it right. That's not really the case with whoever scrawled the words.

 

[bluestreak]

thanks to Spymaster & VP for the explanations, and other people for their conjectures.


interesting: are these people loons, looking for freemasons under the bed, or are they well connected locally and likely to have first or second hand understanding?

It's well documented that Savile was involved with the Knights of Malta, which is a catholic organisation, and was a papal knight. I've not found anything to persuasive to say he was a freemason, although there's a lot of loon sites that want me to believe he was.

Whilst freemasonry is happy with catholics it seems from this handy timeline that it's only since 1983 that catholics haven't been threatened with excommunication for joining the masons. Now they just get punished with an interdict because "the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and, therefore, membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful, who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion." That's signed by one JOSEPH Card. RATZINGER of the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, who presumably knows what he's on about.

So I'm a bit doubtful Savile was himself a freemason. Why do these guys think he was protected by freemasons?

my own suspicions: because it is emotionally more reassuring to believe that there is a high level conspiracy to protect child abusers than to believe that we, as a society, can so utterly utterly fail to protect children without some sort of interference from above. excuse the pun. in a scenario where savile etc. are protected by a secret society then we cannot be held responsible for information withheld from us and abusers allowed to prosper. IYSWIM?

 

[DotCommunist]

I can see that the bottom edge looks like it was redone- that's part of the care I mentioned. Whoever painted it wanted it right. That's not really the case with whoever scrawled the words.

The 'beast' scrawl is higher up, the masonic imagery done lower down. Likely the persons did not wish to climb again when doing the pyramid and eye. Really, ffs.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I reckon this graffiti was done by the local Womens Institute.

I mean, it's pretty tame stuff isn't it?

"Jimmy The Beast"

Not a "nonce", "cunt", or "bastard" in sight, no smashed windows, and a neat little Eye of Providence.

It looks like the work of the Girl Guides.

That is unbelievably misogynist