Heroin Addiction in the UK

[Elpenor]

On another part of this website, which has been renowned for some decades as a source of impartial advice:

This site neither condemns nor condones drug use. This resource is for people to access the facts and make their own, informed decisions.

I am uncomfortable about the demonising and dehumanising word “junkie” being thrown around so freely. People who use drugs are just that - people.

Back in the early noughties the drugs forum was one of the busier forums on these boards. These days it is far, far quieter, and one of the reasons is sadly because we have lost some well-loved contributors to this forum over the years.

So I think throwing the word “junkie” around - which I don’t remember seeing on the drugs or other forums back in the day - is disrespectful and rude in general, but it also cuts personally against friends who are no longer here. I wish people would remember this more

 

[Rompipalle]

Another free tip. If you're claiming you don't give a shit about something, don't then immediately continue going on about it.

Making one comment in response to your apparent misapprehension is not "continuing going on about it".

Is there something wrong with you?

Don't bother to reply. I'm not interested in your lame responses.

... and nor do I need (or want) tips from the likes of you - free or otherwise.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Perhaps, in the context of the experience that was described, it's more pertinent to apply the term drug "abuser", rather than drug user. That would be very much more meaningful and correct.

If you work in healthcare and you still think there's a nice neat line between 'user' and 'abuser' then you've not been paying attention.

Many 'abusers' are self-medicating for real reasons, they just aren't able to access either legitimate medications or whatever support they need to reduce their need for medication. And if you think a particular person's reasons for using heroin or whatever aren't good enough, or that their reasoning is flawed, well that's great but it doesn't actually improve the situation for anyone does it?

 

[Dystopiary]

If you work in healthcare and you still think there's a nice neat line between 'user' and 'abuser' then you've not been paying attention.

Many 'abusers' are self-medicating for real reasons, they just aren't able to access either legitimate medications or whatever support they need to reduce their need for medication. And if you think a particular person's reasons for using heroin or whatever aren't good enough, or that their reasoning is flawed, well that's great but it doesn't actually improve the situation for anyone does it?

All that plus a hell of a lot of people are addicted to drugs that were prescribed to them by their doctor.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Is there something wrong with you?

Don't bother to reply. I'm not interested in your lame responses.

Yes actually, I'm suffering from a chronic knee injury. Woke up at 2am in so much pain that I snuck a codeine left over from an old prescription, so I could get enough sleep to go to work.

Which I suppose makes me a drug abuser. And also, in a very real sense, 'lame' which I'm sure it amuses you to draw attention to as you have here.

 

[SpookyFrank]

All that plus a hell of a lot of people are addicted to drugs that were prescribed to them by their doctor.

Can't be, no. Doctor drugs are good drugs.

Not back when they prescribed laudanum for depression and cocaine for toothache of course, but you know, now that we're always right about everything.

 

[planetgeli]

Perhaps, in the context of the experience that was described, it's more pertinent to apply the term drug "abuser", rather than drug user. That would be very much more meaningful and correct.

Why?

It's a simple question. Answer it. In this context. Why is 'abuser' more pertinent?

As you've worked in healthcare since 1926, you'll know there is not a single molecule in diamorphine that causes anti-social behaviour.

You know who Morpheus was right?

What has been described upthread is run of the mill ASB. That it happened to be exhibited by heroin addicts is not the point. ASB comes from social and economic deprivation, and a system that works on stratification, not from heroin use.

And before you say it, robbing, stealing, lying? Prohibition causes this. Not heroin.

So why is it pertinent to apply the word 'abuser' - specifically in context as you say - here?

 

[Rompipalle]

Why?

It's a simple question. Answer it. In this context. Why is 'abuser' more pertinent?

As you've worked in healthcare since 1926, you'll know there is not a single molecule in diamorphine that causes anti-social behaviour.

You know who Morpheus was right?

What has been described upthread is run of the mill ASB. That it happened to be exhibited by heroin addicts is not the point. ASB comes from social and economic deprivation, and a system that works on stratification, not from heroin use.

And before you say it, robbing, stealing, lying? Prohibition causes this. Not heroin.

So why is it pertinent to apply the word 'abuser' - specifically in context as you say - here?

When you stop trying to be a smartarse, then perhaps I might engage with your comments but not until then.

Oh, and I don't respond to obnoxious orders - such as the bit in bold - either.

 

[planetgeli]

When you stop trying to be a smartarse, then perhaps I might engage with your comments but not until then.

Oh, and I don't respond to obnoxious orders - such as the bit in bold - either.

Fine, you have no answer.

Off you fuck

 

[Rompipalle]

Fine, you have no answer.

Off you fuck

Oh I do have answers but I don't respond to obnoxious arseholes.

 

[SpookyFrank]

When you stop trying to be a smartarse, then perhaps I might engage with your comments but not until then.

Oh, and I don't respond to obnoxious orders - such as the bit in bold - either.

If the list of people you're too clever to bother talking to gets any longer you might end up having to fuck off altogether.

And think of the priceless contributions we'd all be deprived of if that were to happen.

 

[story]

well having to fund a heroin addiction if your not rich turns you into an anti social chaotic mess. Which is very hard to feel sorry for if you've been on the receiving end of their behaviour. It's a vicious cirlce the illegality of heroin makes it expensive and fuels crime to feed the habit. Which leads to more security and more hassle. I brought a folding bicycle because I had to leave my nice bike 20 mins away hour from work to have any hope of it being there at the end of my shift. Etc etc.

Yeah I get that. I've had nuff user friends to know.



Funny thing though innit, how the ones who (for one reason or another) don’t have to scrabble around at the desperate end of things don’t tend to do the lying stealing cheating stuff.

Prohibition innit.







What’s with the old fashioned ignorant bigoted prejudiced stuff though
It’s as if some posters have escaped the Comments Section from a Red Top and got lost.

 

[Jammy smears]

I'm not particularly clued up on drugs having never bothered with them myself (very addictive personality as the battle with my weight and cigarettes will attest to) but I'm led to believe that spice (zero clue as to what spice actually is) is more popular in my city than any other drug these days, the only experience I've had of them is seeing them wander around the city centre in small groups looking like they're about to keel over, it doesn't look like much fun is being had by any of them. I know it puts a lot of people off going into town shopping and it seems like whenever I go, another shop or two have had to employ security. I've seen the occasional video of them falling over, laid on the pavement, talking gibberish or whatever and everyone thinks it's hilarious, it isn't funny, it's just bloody tragic, some of them are just kids, 17/18.
Other than that the only experience I've had is 3 men that I've worked with over the years who were addicts, two heroin and one alcohol. One OD'd and died shortly before his 30th, the alcoholic died in his 50s and the other heroin addict is clean now but lost a leg, something to do with where he was injecting? The man who OD'd had a pitiful life, beaten regularly by his stepfather who threw him out as soon as he'd finished school. He was such a sweet kid really, not the brightest due to a lack of schooling, couldn't read or write and very naive, I think he sofa surfed until given a council flat but he got evicted due to letting people come round and trash the place, he got mixed up in the wrong crowd and that was that, stopped showing up at work and then we got the news that he'd overdosed and died,
The alcoholic lost his wife and two kids as he chose the drink and she left the city, he never saw them again, just drank himself to death.
The other heroin addict, I have no idea why he started using, had a good family, lovely mum and brothers, girlfriend and a son, steady job. I haven't seen him in years but we keep in touch on facebook and he's doing ok.

 

[BristolEcho]

I'm not particularly clued up on drugs having never bothered with them myself (very addictive personality as the battle with my weight and cigarettes will attest to

I'm not trying to be a dick to you, but you have then bothered with drugs as your use of Nicotine attests too. It's important to stop trying to seperate substances by their legal status as this further outcasts people who use substances that are illegal. As we will see with Nicotine.

On another part of this website, which has been renowned for some decades as a source of impartial advice:


I am uncomfortable about the demonising and dehumanising word “junkie” being thrown around so freely. People who use drugs are just that - people.

Back in the early noughties the drugs forum was one of the busier forums on these boards. These days it is far, far quieter, and one of the reasons is sadly because we have lost some well-loved contributors to this forum over the years.

So I think throwing the word “junkie” around - which I don’t remember seeing on the drugs or other forums back in the day - is disrespectful and rude in general, but it also cuts personally against friends who are no longer here. I wish people would remember this more

Thank you I really expect better of this board.

Oh I do have answers but I don't respond to obnoxious arseholes.

Then do share the answers I'm all ears and I have had no conflict with you, but I do disagree with your posts.

 

[Rompipalle]

Then do share the answers I'm all ears and I have had no conflict with you, but I do disagree with your posts.

To specifically what would you like my answer?

Is it the difference in definition between user and abuser?

 

[Jammy smears]

I'm not trying to be a dick to you, but you have then bothered with drugs as your use of Nicotine attests too. It's important to stop trying to seperate substances by their legal status as this further outcasts people who use substances that are illegal. As we will see with Nicotine.

Thank you I really expect better of this board.


Then do share the answers I'm all ears and I have had no conflict with you, but I do disagree with your posts.

That's a good point, smokers are fast becoming outcasts.
I don't usually seperate drugs by legal status, more by how it affects your life, your behaviour and your relationships. If your life goes down the toilet, it matters not whether what ruined it was illegal or not.

 

[Jammy smears]

To specifically what would you like my answer?

Is it the difference in definition between user and abuser?

Even a seemingly harmless hobby like going to the gym to get fit can get out of hand, become an addiction and take over your life and do you harm.

Trauma has been mentioned a few times in this thread as a cause of addiction but I think personality type can play a part too

 

[story]

Self medication for ND is probably a large and largely unrecognised factor too.

It’s multifactorial for sure (what isn’t) but I reckon trauma is the common denominator.

Trauma underlies self worth issues. Self worth issues drive self sabotage, self harm.

 

[Rompipalle]

Just want to say... in case anyone is misinterpreting my thoughts - being a drug user is quite some way away from being a drug abuser.

For myself, I don't particularly care whether anyone chooses to use drugs for their personal/recreational use or not. That is their choice.

My issue is when drug use begins to impact upon the lives of others - such as those who are victims of those who use drugs - and when it evolves into abuse e.g. family members, partners etc who endure violence or hardship as a consequence of the abuser's conduct. Similarly, those who use drugs and fail to dispose of their drug paraphernalia in a responsible manner are placing others at risk as a result. That is drug abuse too.

I also class those who supply and deal in illegal drugs as abusers, even if they do not use these substances themselves.

I am in favour of the decriminalisation of drug use and encouraging safe consumption of drugs - particularly if this carves the way ahead for drug use not subsequently evolving into abuse and if it is also used to encourage people to safely wean themselves off addictive substances.

 

[ice-is-forming]

The 1980s called - they'd like their aod policies back please..

 

[Rompipalle]

Even a seemingly harmless hobby like going to the gym to get fit can get out of hand, become an addiction and take over your life and do you harm.

Trauma has been mentioned a few times in this thread as a cause of addiction but I think personality type can play a part too

Totally agree with this.

 

[story]

Just want to say... in case anyone is misinterpreting my thoughts - being a drug user is quite some way away from being a drug abuser.

For myself, I don't particularly care whether anyone chooses to use drugs for their personal/recreational use or not. That is their choice.

My issue is when drug use begins to impact upon the lives of others - such as those who are victims of those who use drugs evolves into abuse e.g. family members, partners etc who endure violence or hardship as a consequence of the abuser's conduct. Similarly, those who use drugs and fail to dispose of their drug paraphernalia in a responsible manner are placing others at risk as a result. That is drug abuse too.

I also class those who supply and deal in illegal drugs as abusers, even if they do not use these substances themselves.

I am in favour of the decriminalisation of drug use and encouraging safe consumption of drugs - particularly if this carves the way ahead for drug use not subsequently evolving into abuse and if it is also used to encourage people to safely wean themselves off addictive substances.

What about of someone uses drugs and the person being impacted is only being impacted because they’ve got a very intolerant attitude to drug use?

What about if the partner of a drug user starts using drugs and they’re both okay with it and neither loses their jobs. Is it drug abuse before the second person said “I’m curious, let me try” and drug use after they say “hey this is pretty good!” ?

What about the middle class white people who sink the wine with food and are damaging their livers over the long term but on the daily don’t exhibit any issues because they’re solvent, have cleaner who makes everything look acceptable, a nanny who fills in the gaps so the children aren’t impacted. Is that use or abuse ?


There are a billion different ways to show how your criteria for judgement ends up in the realm of “but that’s not what I meant…”


So what do you mean?

Do you mean “use is what seems okay to me and abuse is what doesn’t seem okay to me”?

 

[story]

Like, if one of my heroin user friends comes to my house, I don’t leave them unattended because theft. And I’d much rather they use openly rather than hide away in the bathroom. I’m not impacted, and they’ve pretty much organised their lives so that no one else is detrimentally impacted. They work, they create, they have relationships, they travel.

They themselves want to get off the gear, for personal reasons.

I want them to be happy.

Are they users or abusers?


My friends who were hard core heroin users in the 80s. One is still on a script and tops up with heroin at the weekends. Another uses Valium he buys on the dark net. Both have long term relationships, both are in full time work, one of them as a drug support counsellor. They are both tricking the system or buying drugs illegally or otherwise subverting expectations, being dishonest. Neither is fussed about kicking their habit.

Are they using or abusing?

 

[Rompipalle]

What about of someone uses drugs and the person being impacted is only being impacted because they’ve got a very intolerant attitude to drug use?

What about if the partner of a drug user starts using drugs and they’re both okay with it and neither loses their jobs. Is it drug abuse before the second person said “I’m curious, let me try” and drug use after they say “hey this is pretty good!” ?

What about the middle class white people who sink the wine with food and are damaging their livers over the long term but on the daily don’t exhibit any issues because they’re solvent, have cleaner who makes everything look acceptable, a nanny who fills in the gaps so the children aren’t impacted. Is that use or abuse ?


There are a billion different ways to show how your criteria for judgement ends up in the realm of “but that’s not what I meant…”


So what do you mean?

Do you mean “use is what seems okay to me and abuse is what doesn’t seem okay to me”?

What about if?, what about if?, what about if?...

I've stated my point of view and I don't propose to argue the toss about it. I'm not asking you to like it, to agree with it or to endorse it. It's my opinion and if you and others don't happen to agree with it, then I think I can probably live with that.

If you're just looking for an argument, then go and look for it elsewhere.

 

[story]

What about if?, what about if?, what about if?...

I've stated my point of view and I don't propose to argue the toss about it. I'm not asking you to like it, to agree with it or to endorse it. It's my opinion and if you and others don't happen to agree with it, then I think I can probably live with that.

If you're just looking for an argument, then go and look for it elsewhere.

Exactly.

Positions such as yours inevitably get chased around the “what about” circuit, as I just demonstrated.

The point is there are so many holes in your position that it really is nothing but an opinion.

If you can’t or won’t defend it or explain it or justify it in a discussion, there’s not much point in engaging here at all.

There are several posters who disagree with you. You’ve not explained your thinking. You’ve just hit back at the poster who’s pulled you up each time.

You’re saying “I just don’t like it, so there!”

Eta
I’m not looking for an argument, I just wanted to clarify whether or not you had anything to support your view. Now we know, so that’s sorted.

 

[Rompipalle]

Exactly.

Positions such as yours inevitably get chased around the “what about” circuit, as I just demonstrated.

The point is there are so many holes in your position that it really is nothing but an opinion.

If you can’t or won’t defend it or explain it or justify it in a discussion, there’s not much point in engaging here at all.

There are several posters who disagree with you. You’ve not explained your thinking. You’ve just hit back at the poster who’s pulled you up each time.

You’re saying “I just don’t like it, so there!”

I've never portrayed it as anything other than my opinion, so I'm not sure quite why you're getting so indignant about it.

I've explained my position already and if you don't care for my opinion, then that's entirely your privilege. It doesn't make my opinion wrong. It just means you don't share my opinion and I don't share yours. Why do you have a problem with that?

I'm not seeking to bring anyone round to my way of thinking, so if others also disagree with me, that's perfectly fine.

You and some others appear to only want to argue... and I'm afraid I'm just not interested.

 

[ice-is-forming]

Rompipalle I think it's fair to point out to you, that your opinion is at odds with current, evidence based best practice and global research.

The health & human rights of pwud have been on the receiving end of propaganda and misinformation for decades, so it's not entirely your fault that you're wrong. But now you've been told, it's your fault if you dig your heels in rather than listen and learn.

 

[Rompipalle]

Rompipalle I think it's fair to point out to you, that your opinion is at odds with current, evidence based best practice and global research.

The health & human rights of pwud have been on the receiving end of propaganda and misinformation for decades, so it's not entirely your fault that you're wrong. But now you've been told, it's your fault if you dig your heels in rather than listen and learn.

What have I said that you believe is "wrong"?

 

[Sasaferrato]

User or abuser? What is the difference?

Practically there is none, both are someone who ingests drugs that haven't been prescribed for them, and are likely illegal substances.

Societally the difference is that a line or two of coke at a middle class dinner party is perfectly fine, whereas the person up an alley injecting heroin into their last viable vein is not. One is an amusing pastime, the other a menace that needs to be eradicated.

Double standards? Absolutely.

I am not in favour of legalising all drugs for one simple reason. Every heroin addict started off as someone of the view 'I control it, it doesn't control me', until it does.

 

[ice-is-forming]

What have I said that you believe is "wrong"?

Well your continued use of the term drug abuse for starters - perpetuating stigma and discrimination - which are barriers to people seeking help and advice - as well as increasing internalised self stigma.

Research shows that use of the terms 'abuse, abuser & addict' negatively affects perceptions and judgments about people who use drugs, including whether they should receive punishment rather than improved access to health, harm reduction & human rights.