Heroin Addiction in the UK

[InArduisFouette]

I saw a clip from a Reel describing how British gangsters include within their number include MSMs, "dealing gear and sucking pole" as they put it.

you only need to go back to the Kray twins to know that within Organised crime there was and is a degree of tolerance of of MSM particularly those who topped ... ditto C19th and C20th British middle and upper classes where it was only problematic if one sought out to be the receptive partner in an indiscreet manner ( see Stephen Fry's Politician Character in It's a Sin )

 

[dylanredefined]

The problem is those who are addicted to heroin have to do lots of anti social stuff to get their fix.
Lying stealing etc .

 

[Boo Radley75]

In my experience it's deemed acceptable by seemingly otherwise reasonable people to stigmatise and casually use all kinds of slurs against heroin addicts.

There's a fair bit of addiction on Merseyside, as in many places, but from my perspective the addicts are deemed practically a kind of refuse.

We have a plentiful supply of them in my town. When they hang out together in a public space, shouting abuse at and threatening small children (such as my daughter, when she was 3) and old people, damn right I will casually use slurs against them.

 

[dessiato]

.

 

[dessiato]

We have a plentiful supply of them in my town. When they hang out together in a public space, shouting abuse at and threatening small children (such as my daughter, when she was 3) and old people, damn right I will casually use slurs against them.

How do you think that will improve things?

I'd like to refer you to post #6

One of my sisters was an addict for 15 years. She's clean now and has been for about 15 years.

What would I call her? Beautiful, wonderfully caring, an exceptional woman, someone of whom I'm very proud, loud, full of life, a joy to be around, and many other things.

Addicts, as has been said earlier, are people with a problem. They are still people.

 

[Boo Radley75]

How do you think that will improve things?

I'd like to refer you to post #6

How do you think worrying about the feelings of the poor, dear toddler and pensioner verbal abusers will help them?

Personally, I think people who do that are scum of the earth and belong behind bars. Should count themselves lucky that people they abuse not liking them seems to be the only punishment they get for their actions.

 

[PTK]

What should we say to people who shout abuse at us?

 

[Sweet FA]

How do you think worrying about the feelings of the poor, dear toddler and pensioner verbal abusers will help them?

Personally, I think people who do that are scum of the earth and belong behind bars. Should count themselves lucky that people they abuse not liking them seems to be the only punishment they get for their actions.

oh fuck off you dreary reductionist prick

 

[Boo Radley75]

What should we say to people who shout abuse at us?

Personally, I tried to ignore him till the moment he lunged at my daughter in a push chair, at which point I pushed him and yelled at him to fuck off, and I called the police. Unfortunately, the police refused to come out, even though it would be easy to catch him as he lurched away unsteadily and slowly down a cycle path which only leads one way.

But yes, bad me, I should have had much more consideration of his feelings. It clearly wasn't his fault that he was being marginalised from society.

 

[klang]

That went from 'them' to 'him' quickly.

 

[Elpenor]

Still by telling him to fuck off you’ll have demonstrated the proper way to behave

 

[Boo Radley75]

oh fuck off you dreary reductionist prick

 

[SpookyFrank]

What should we say to people who shout abuse at us?

Nothing. If you want to piss someone off who's trying to get a reaction out of you, best way to do it is not to give them one.

Unless your self esteem really needs the massive boost that comes from winning a battle of wits with a person half out of their brains from drugs or mental illness.

 

[Boo Radley75]

That went from 'them' to 'him' quickly.

Yes, clearly by talking about one incident, it must have been the same person, every other time they yelled abuse at people and all his mates, even when he wasn't there, had nothing to do with it.

 

[klang]

Bring back the rope.

 

[Boo Radley75]

Still by telling him to fuck off you’ll have demonstrated the proper way to behave

Are you seriously suggesting I should have just stood there, say nothing, and let him hit my 3 year old daughter??? Christ on a bike!!!

 

[Elpenor]

Refer you to SF’s response

But I’m all about deescalation

 

[Boo Radley75]

Refer you to SF’s response

But I’m all about deescalation

Well I deescalated the situation by stopping him assaulting my daughter and would do exactly the same thing again, with foresight, had some adult launched a verbal and physical attack on a three year old.

 

[LakieLady]

The problem is those who are addicted to heroin have to do lots of anti social stuff to get their fix.
Lying stealing etc .

Which is why I'm in favour of prescribing methadone, injectable if necessary, so that they don't have to resort to robbing and burgling in order to fund their addiction, while increasing funding for rehab and therapy so that they can get help to stop when they feel ready.

I've worked with a few junkies over the years, and everyone of them had a history of trauma, abandonment etc. Addicts are made, not born, and rehab is (mostly) futile unless there is help in addressing the underlying causes imo.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Which is why I'm in favour of prescribing methadone, injectable if necessary, so that they don't have to resort to robbing and burgling in order to fund their addiction, while increasing funding for rehab and therapy so that they can get help to stop when they feel ready.

I've worked with a few junkies over the years, and everyone of them had a history of trauma, abandonment etc. Addicts are made, not born, and rehab is (mostly) futile unless there is help in addressing the underlying causes imo.

Believe it or not, we used to just give them Heroin. Which seems a very sensible way to go about it.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09581596.2020.1772463

 

[LakieLady]

Believe it or not, we used to just give them Heroin. Which seems a very sensible way to go about it.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09581596.2020.1772463

I know, and we didn't have addicts going out on the rob as a result. Heroin addiction was treated as a medical matter, not a criminal one.

 

[story]

How do you think worrying about the feelings of the poor, dear toddler and pensioner verbal abusers will help them?

Personally, I think people who do that are scum of the earth and belong behind bars. Should count themselves lucky that people they abuse not liking them seems to be the only punishment they get for their actions.

Yes. Obviously. This.

Because as is well known every single drug user is aggressive rude and dangerous, and a no one who is not a drug user is ever aggressive rude and dangerous.

Stands to reason, eh. Lock up everyone who uses drugs and all the ills of the words will be immediately eliminated.


Do what though?
You said “people who do that are scum of the earth and belong behind bars”

So…everyone who does drugs? Or everyone who behaves abominably in the street?

Either way, seems a bit draconian to me.






D

 

[VivaE]

The problem is those who are addicted to heroin have to do lots of anti social stuff to get their fix.
Lying stealing etc .

That's a bit of a generalisation. As if addiction is confined to those without the means to fund it. It buys into the tired old trope that addiction - any type of D&A addiction - is a respecter of social standing.

How do you think worrying about the feelings of the poor, dear toddler and pensioner verbal abusers will help them?

Personally, I think people who do that are scum of the earth and belong behind bars. Should count themselves lucky that people they abuse not liking them seems to be the only punishment they get for their actions.

Fair enough to be pissed off at them under the circs you describe but not particularly fair or helpful to write them off as generic scum who should be in prison. No one sets out to be an addict.

 

[Boo Radley75]

Yes. Obviously. This.

Because as is well known every single drug user is aggressive rude and dangerous, and a no one who is not a drug user is ever aggressive rude and dangerous.

Stands to reason, eh. Lock up everyone who uses drugs and all the ills of the words will be immediately eliminated.


Do what though?
You said “people who do that are scum of the earth and belong behind bars”

So…everyone who does drugs? Or everyone who behaves abominably in the street?

Either way, seems a bit draconian to me.






D

Heroin addicts who don't hurt others with anti social behaviour don't get any flack from me. Heroin addicts who hang around in public spaces abusing vulnerable people are scum of the earth. Sorry I didn't make that clear enough to you. Unfortunately, when it comes to this sort of addiction, it's very unlikely that people struggling with it are not going to hurt others, unless they have no family and friends, plenty of money and only sit around shooting up and under the influence in their own homes.

 

[RevolutionSound]

Heroin addicts who don't hurt others with anti social behaviour don't get any flack from me. Heroin addicts who hang around in public spaces abusing vulnerable people are scum of the earth. Sorry I didn't make that clear enough to you. Unfortunately, when it comes to this sort of addiction, it's very unlikely that people struggling with it are not going to hurt others, unless they have no family and friends, plenty of money and only sit around shooting up and under the influence in their own homes.

I'm wondering how you knew they were heroin addicts?

 

[Boo Radley75]

I'm wondering how you knew they were heroin addicts?

Because they hang around outside the pharmacy where I pick up my prescriptions and I see them in there being given their doses of methadone. Happy to clear this point up, that was troubling you.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Because they hang around outside the pharmacy where I pick up my prescriptions and I see them in there being given their doses of methadone. Happy to clear this point up, that was troubling you.

Surely that makes them methadone addicts

 

[SpookyFrank]

I know, and we didn't have addicts going out on the rob as a result. Heroin addiction was treated as a medical matter, not a criminal one.

My mate works with rough sleepers and several people on his books have died from overdoses this year alone. Used to be he'd get maybe one overdose in a year and that'd be a bad year. Quality of street drugs is worse than ever apparently, heroin is increasingly being cut with fentanyl etc and it's killing people. But still it feels like we're decades away from any kind of sane drugs policy that doesn't empower and enrich organised crime and doesn't treat vulnerable people as cannon fodder.

And if we gave addicts heroin, at least they'd not be taking spice instead which really is just about the most awful shit mankind has yet invented. Some of the people Mrs Frank has seen come into her ward at hospital after taking spice, with self-inflicted injuries beyond what you'd think anyone could be capable of. And those who survive just get patched up, cleaned up and sent back out to either do the same thing again or finally finish up dead.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Because they hang around outside the pharmacy where I pick up my prescriptions and I see them in there being given their doses of methadone. Happy to clear this point up, that was troubling you.

Prescription?

So you're a drug user too then?

 

[SpookyFrank]

In my experience of getting shit from people when out and about, it's the drunks who are far worse than anyone else. And I know more people that have ruined their lives with drink than any other drug. But that's legal, so it must be OK I guess.