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Charlottesville aftermath discussion thread...

yeh. don't you think letting fascists march without opposition might be "horrendously bad pr"? ffs, pls engage brain.
I didn't say don't march - i just suggested don't do anything violent or else you will play into the hands of the right wing media.
If i didn't know better i'd say you deliberately misconstrue things to provoke an argument ;)
 
I didn't say don't march - i just suggested don't do anything violent or else you will play into the hands of the right wing media.
If i didn't know better i'd say you deliberately misconstrue things to provoke an argument ;)
i didn't say anything about antifa marching at all.
 
Interesting: After Cable Street, when barricades and sheer numbers prevented the fascists from being able to do their march, the membership of the BUF grew, Mosely's tactic of presenting his party as victims of Jewish-Communist violence apparently worked, even though the only violence was police trying to clear the way for the nazis march by attacking the antifascists. How many of those new recruits were prepared to act to help their cause who knows but joining up as a fascist back in 1936 presumably took a bit more than clicking a button.
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I don't mean allowed by the state, allowed by people
your post appears to be bordering on apologism
why do you "suspect that out and out fascists are outnumbered by those who see this as an attack on their heritage" ??

Well, what exactly do you mean 'allowed by the people'? Which people exactly?

No one is stopping those who wish to 'counter-march', and that is as it should be.

There is a major danger here. It is my view that any person is absolutely entitled to whatever ideology they choose, be that Communism or Fascism (personally I find those ideologies equally revolting.). When any group decides that their ideology is right, and demands the banning of their opposition, then they put themselves in the same position as the group they want banned. We have freedom of belief and freedom of expression, within the confines of the law. 'Within the confines of the law' is the important phrase. No matter how revolting you find 'the other lot', you are not entitled to take the law into your own hands, and physically attack them. There is no exemption to this, you cannot state that your ideology is so superior it entitles you to commit a criminal act, because it doesn't.

The violence that I have seen from the 'anti-fascists' in this country, almost makes me despise them as much as the fascists. You cannot claim any shred of moral superiority, whilst committing criminal acts on the street.

I don't expect you to agree, but at least think about it.
 
Interesting: After Cable Street, when barricades and sheer numbers prevented the fascists from being able to do their march, the membership of the BUF grew, Mosely's tactic of presenting his party as victims of Jewish-Communist violence apparently worked, even though the only violence was police trying to clear the way for the nazis march by attacking the antifascists. How many of those new recruits were prepared to act to help their cause who knows but joining up as a fascist back in 1936 presumably took a bit more than clicking a button.
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I doubt if the extreme right wing in the UK has sufficient numbers to fill a football stadium, well, those who are prepared to march anyway. I don't think I've seen an extreme right march that had a turnout of more than a couple of hundred. Rather like the Communist Party of Great Britain, they are a rapidly waning force.
 
The violence that I have seen from the 'anti-fascists' in this country, almost makes me despise them as much as the fascists. You cannot claim any shred of moral superiority, whilst committing criminal acts on the street.

I don't expect you to agree, but at least think about it.

Could you list some of these things that you have seen?
 
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Still can't get over this image of the Neo Nazis. Terrifying.
Shit!
 
Trump and his cronies will be praying for some Antifa violence so they can point and smugly say "there- told ya so"

Then let's hope the Antifa realizes that as well.
Wrt Boston - the mayor laid down some basic rules including hate speech, let's hope he enforces them. And, if there is violence, I hope that it is started by the alt-right.




These terms and labels are ridiculous.
 
Stonewall Jackson's great, greats weight in too:

We are writing to say that we understand justice very differently from our grandfather’s grandfather, and we wish to make it clear his statue does not represent us.

Through our upbringing and education, we have learned much about Stonewall Jackson. We have learned about his reluctance to fight and his teaching of Sunday School to enslaved peoples in Lexington, Virginia, a potentially criminal activity at the time. We have learned how thoughtful and loving he was toward his family. But we cannot ignore his decision to own slaves, his decision to go to war for the Confederacy, and, ultimately, the fact that he was a white man fighting on the side of white supremacy.

While we are not ashamed of our great-great-grandfather, we are ashamed to benefit from white supremacy while our black family and friends suffer. We are ashamed of the monument.

In fact, instead of lauding Jackson’s violence, we choose to celebrate Stonewall’s sister—our great-great-grandaunt—Laura Jackson Arnold. As an adult Laura became a staunch Unionist and abolitionist. Though she and Stonewall were incredibly close through childhood, she never spoke to Stonewall after his decision to support the Confederacy. We choose to stand on the right side of history with Laura Jackson Arnold.

“The Monuments Must Go”: An Open Letter From the Great-Great-Grandsons of Stonewall Jackson

If the literal decendants of these men can put the past in its proper place, you'd think the ones who fancy themselves the figurative decendants could as well.
 
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The violence that I have seen from the 'anti-fascists' in this country, almost makes me despise them as much as the fascists. You cannot claim any shred of moral superiority, whilst committing criminal acts on the street.
Could you list some of these things that you have seen?

(Asked again so you can't pretend not to have seen BA's question)
 
Trump and his cronies will be praying for some Antifa violence so they can point and smugly say "there- told ya so"
the alternative is to let them march. No matter how you oppose the far right liberals and centrists will label you 'just as bad' and quite breathlessly talk about 'extremeist ideologies' and horsehoe theories. We've seen the rise in this already.
 
This could have been written by the Grand Dragon

I do wonder what conversation some people think is being had when antifascists physically oppose fascists. I remember once a poster arguing that those who oppose the fash should turn up enne mass and then symbolically turn their backs in silence as the fascists march. Turn your back for gods sake. Literally. Complete misreading of the language being spoken here, complete misunderstanding of what a power play/show of force from them is for.
 
This could have been written by the Grand Dragon

Daft. Fascism is something you adopt , choose to align with. Unlike skin colour, sex, disability.

Yes Rachel whatsname. Why did that stink.

e2a I said skin colour, as opposed to race because I thought some smart Alec would say race is but a social construct. Not to discount bigotry against Jews, gypsies, and so on. Just to be clear.
 
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The most powerful moving piece of protest I've seen was during the civil rights era.
A black man was eating his burger in the white side of a segregated diner whilst white men and women yelled abuse at him, whilst throwing drinks at him and pouring tomato sauce on his head.
All the while he calmly sat there eating his burger. It was an amazing bit of footage.

I've tried searching for it but can't find it on YouTube, although it might be in a Woolworths (rip).
I believe that man advanced his cause a thousand times more than if he would have smashed the place to matchwood
 
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