Bitcoin discussion and news
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BigTom
Well-Known Member
I also think that people fully down the rabbit hole will have decided that somehow the fact that stablecoins are just a mirror of fiat, they somehow escape all the problems of fiat because governments can't just print more UST. Only Tether can do that! Sounds great to me...
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Although “desperate” may be a little strong, I am thinking of people like a teacher I know, who thought that his pension wasn’t going to cover him in old age, so moved it to bitcoin. This was around about the time of the peak of the market when lots of celebrity endorsements were urging him to do so. That big chunk of money wasn’t “going spare”; he just lacked the kind of financial acumen needed to understand risk.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
There's a substantial industry that's grown up around hyping and legitimising this stuff isn't there. It's not surprising that people have got sucked in and you can't blame them entirely (although I do suspect most of them have heard about the environmental impact and decided to ignore it tbh).
ska invita
back on the other side
I really really hope Farage has lost a ton of money
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Whatever else he might be Farage knows his grifts. I doubt he ever sunk a penny in personally and took all his remuneration from Southbank Investment Research in cold hard cash (in fact he pretty much says so outright in his latest blustering about the subject):
Compare and contrast to April, where he was fronting a show which basically said buy buy buy. Honestly in a way I sort of respect the utter lack of shame (though not enough to keep him out of the very deepest and darkest salt mine come the revolution).
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's going spare in the sense that it isn't needed to buy food or pay bills, which is why using the word desperate is off the mark, imo. They may feel desperate now if they've lost a big chunk of their savings, but there is no sense in which they were desperate at the point of buying into crypto. Lots of people have woefully inadequate pension provision, me included. Doesn't of itself make us anything close to desperate.
I do have some sympathy for people who lose money by making stupid decisions, but like any grift, crypto plays on people's greed. They see people getting rich and want in on it. And if they didn't look too closely at things like the environmental devastation before buying in, that doesn't reflect well on them.
I take your point about the amount being wiped off in the latest slump, but only a fraction of the $2 trillion wiped off the notional capitalisation of crypto ever changed hands.
q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
Originally they were a tax avoidance mechanism as it used to be that crypto-crypto trades were not taxable, but crypto-fiat trades were. Now both are taxable, but crypto-fiat trades are easier to control, as you have to give over your identity to turn it into fiat
Nope, thats the people that are still stuck halfway down.
More serious crypto folk know that stablecoins are an enormous risk.
1btc always equals 1btc, but 1 stablecoin has only a tenuous link to a metric that is completely arbitrary.
It usually takes 1 cycle for people to get out of the stablecoin trap, and carry on down the rabbit hole.
q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
Yeah, there is. Breathless youtube influencers and scammy pump and dump schemes are everywhere.
Crypto is so so simple really, but so many newbies end up drawing lines on charts and chasing number go up.
Bitcoin is very unforgiving to the greedy.
maomao
普費斯
Not if you just want to buy a sandwich though.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
I think the real tragedy here is you clearly think of yourself as an insider, rather than just another mark. I hesitate to agree with Farage, but I hope you're well divested outside this sort of thing.
q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
I dont think I'd consider myself an "insider" but I have one of the strongest faiths of any of the people I know.
And really thats what it is when it all comes down to it - faith and belief.
I solidly believe that bitcoin is a fundamentally better basis for money which can address the human supremacist mentality and growth at all costs mindset that is wrecking the planet.
In every bullrun cycle the majority are newcomers who are only just exploring crypto. Most newcomers come for the money.
In every bear, they watch all the money they thought they had evaporate into thin air.
Some of them realise it was never about the money.
They are the ones who stick around.
And really thats what it is when it all comes down to it - faith and belief.
I solidly believe that bitcoin is a fundamentally better basis for money which can address the human supremacist mentality and growth at all costs mindset that is wrecking the planet.
In every bullrun cycle the majority are newcomers who are only just exploring crypto. Most newcomers come for the money.
In every bear, they watch all the money they thought they had evaporate into thin air.
Some of them realise it was never about the money.
They are the ones who stick around.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
I know it's painful to kick away at a solid foundation in your life, but it is about the money and the sooner you accept this the sooner you can move on and commit your goodwill to something worthwhile.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Christ almighty
maomao
普費斯
Surely an admission that there is no rational or intellectual foundation for your trust in Bitcoin.
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q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
My foundation is based on the maths being the best determinate of resource allocation, rather than human control.
That is faith based, in that it decentres humanity. Just as those who centre humanity as the ultimate authority of resource allocation is faith based.
I just dont believe in human supremacy
q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
Thing is, right, if I give up my belief in bitcoin, I;m going to descend into a nihilist swamp, because there is NOTHING else at all that gives me hope that humanity can deal with the issues that we are facing.
If bitcoin fails, we are all going down with it.
maomao
普費斯
But Bitcoin doesn't use maths to allocate resources. It uses maths to stop humans from trying to allocate resources in any planned manner. Central banks and governments may do very little for the poor but they mostly do slightly more than a complete free-for-all. I've asked this twice now and been ignored: how in a BTC dominated world would my son have ever received the third most expensive drug in the world (blinatumomab/blincyto now down the list a bit), which saved his life, other than through charity?
Flavour
hang the bankers
"We" being a pretty tiny number of people
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
They mean the societal "we". I don't agree that Bitcoin is the answer but I sympathise with the underlying depression and sense of helplessness.
…
Er…
(See also nonsense about it removing humanity from the equation but then talking about it being the thing that can save humanity)
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The line goes up crew will still be clinging to their faith in the mysterious cycles.
Over the last ten years, Bitcoin has seen three significant surges in price.
The first one in 2013-14 saw it top $1k before having 80% of its value wiped off in a subsequent relatively long slump.
Then in 2017-18, it surged once again, this time to $20k, before slumping back to about $4k, again about 80% down in a relatively long slump.
Then it surged again in 2020-21, this time to just under $70k. An 80% slump from there will see it at around $14. It hasn't reached that yet, but if it does steady out around $14k, the bitcoinistas will be saying that it's going to go to $200k next time.
Over the last ten years, Bitcoin has seen three significant surges in price.
The first one in 2013-14 saw it top $1k before having 80% of its value wiped off in a subsequent relatively long slump.
Then in 2017-18, it surged once again, this time to $20k, before slumping back to about $4k, again about 80% down in a relatively long slump.
Then it surged again in 2020-21, this time to just under $70k. An 80% slump from there will see it at around $14. It hasn't reached that yet, but if it does steady out around $14k, the bitcoinistas will be saying that it's going to go to $200k next time.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Yeah I get that too. The thing is though that crypto doesn't only lack an even slightly coherent explanation as to how it's going to fix any of that, it's actively making them worse in reality. It's like realising deforestation is a problem and trying to tackle it by starting fires.
Hollis
bloody furious
What's "a big chunk of money" is relative to circumstance isn't it. And if its anything like problem gambling, you'll find people neglecting and mismanaging their finances, borrowing, lying and scamming off people to keep up their 'habit'. Of course it 'doesn't reflect well' on them -if you want to get into that - these thing's generally don't.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
It would be interesting to see research on that actually. Although I think buying crypto basically is gambling I doubt most who've done it see it like that. They'll think of it as investing and I guess the psychology is different.
maomao
普費斯
I bet you get big old dopamine hits from your investment going up 1000% in a year.
Hollis
bloody furious
There's definitely an overlap. There's a certain type of gambler who loves their systems... and in general gambling can, ironically, be about giving people a sense of control over something.
All the stuff around crypto and 'trading' in general will play on exactly the same areas for some people.
There's more stuff on Gamcare about it.. but I don't know of any research
Understand cryptocurrency trading: what is it, what are the risks and how is it similar to gambling? - GamCare
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Yeah, but one burning tree is still worth the same as one burning tree…
BigTom
Well-Known Member
How can maths determine what person A needs to leave a happy and fulfilled life? Or know that I prefer Polo shirts whilst my friend likes t shirts and allocate clothing accordingly? And so on.
Maths cannot do anything. Humans can do things with maths, including allocating resources but if you left it up to maths alone, nothing would happen, because maths is a concept, a human concept at that, though that's winding back to a previous tangential conversation we probably don't want to go back to, lol.
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