Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion
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Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
That fucking freak Argentinian President Javier Milei meeting with Musk and Trump.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Good article on it here. The Senate (which is majority Republican atm) can theoretically block any of these appointments, but in practice this is rare.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/14/politics/cabinet-confirmation-recess-what-matters/index.html
President appoints 1,200 people in total! All theoretically need to be approved by the Senate.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Thank you, looks perfect
teqniq
DisMembered
* sigh * The US has never actually wanted the complete overthrow of the Assad regime, during the Arab spring preferring to sidestep the 'red lines' that Obama stated would be the point at which there would be intervention. Remember that the US was quite happy to use the regime for 'black sites' in extraordinary rendition. The issue with Gabbard is that she has openly shown support for the regime despite their obvious war crimes and alliance/dependence on Russia.. I suppose really it's all of a piece with the ongoing war crimes of Israel....
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BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Wasn’t it the case that the dems used to be the party of the working class? Almost a definitive split, with a side helping of intelligencia and a smattering of urban elites? I.e that it was in your labour/union interests to vote them if you were a wage earner. But now it seems to have moved to the republican having thr momentum of the party of the working class (whilst selling them down the river of course). Similar patterns can be spotted here but less you’d like to think up North. I guess when you outsource so much to china etc then “class conciousness” is weakened in itself. So much has changed over the past 40 years in terms of understanding class-political affiliation, just as so much has changed in regards mass industrialised work forces. Neoliberalism and its constant urge toward atomisation and individualism. Trump I wouldn’t say (yet) is outright fascism but it’s certainly mask-off neoliberalism. Neoliberalism without the “well being spaces” and Converses. Simplistic twaddle I know but it does seem to me that the majority of working class voices I hear from America are all on the trump side of things.
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breadandcircuse
"The time is always right to do what is right"
Is anyone else sick to death of seeing the stupid idiot with his thumbs up in every fucking photo? Fucking ass wipe. Every idiot around him has to do the same. Those fucking thumbs need chopping off to stop him "truthing". What a prick.
ska invita
back on the other side
Incredibly significant gesture that this is the first national leader Trump is meeting...a self declared anarchocapitalist fascist sympathiser state dismantler in control of a country...this is a paradigm shift, a new political philosophy in power....
The first Trump term is irrelevant in terms of expectations for what's to come
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Yes, it’s pretty (potentially) revolutionary in what is unfolding.
To be fair it isn't like people here are the Democratic Party leadership any more than they are Trump voters so blaming the Democratic Party strategy isnt any more consequential than blaming American voters / US culture in general.
Yes the Democratic Party should have gone more pro-labour and less identity politics and should have taken a principled stand on Gaza. But they won't. A break with Israel is possible but unlikely, going pro-Labour is basically impossible without some kind of dramatic upheaval in the Party, as it would upset corporate donors.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
IMO the best way to think of fascism is as a checklist. You might not fulfil every criterion, but if you fufil enough, you're fascist.
Cultivation of a cult of personality around the leader is essential. That leader is transactional. He (doesn't have to be a he - extreme mysogyny and promotion at least superficially of traditional values is characteristic but not essential) surrounds himself with those whom he has done favours and who have done him favours, but he is brutal with them - they compete with each other to do his bidding, and he encourages this process.
The vision of the state is corporatist, denying class as a legitimate concept, while at the same time, the leader is the champion of the worker and the common man (more rarely the common woman as well, but in most fascist conceptions, a woman is an extension of, and secondary to, a man). His vision of society, such as it is, is corporatist. It is likely based heavily around the family unit.
The leader is disdainful of the democratic processes that he may have used to gain power, and subverts them wherever he can. Dissenters are pursued. To disagree with him is to be his enemy. The fascist also has a keen interest in control over the dissemination of information and seeks to be the final arbiter of truth. He is vengeful and may be capricious, and to speak against him in any way is to lose favour immediately.
Fascism is aggressively nationalist. It looks backwards to an invented history to justify its nationalism. It is an aggressive xenophobic nationalism. It defines its in-group and persecutes its out-group.
The fascist may or may not lean on religion. If he does so, the primary purpose of this is to enforce the in-group identity. He scapegoats aggressively and blames his own failings and failures on the outgroup, hatred of which he cultivates assiduously (and that out-group can and will include various 'enemies within'). Cultivating hatred is characteristic of fascism. You love your own and you hate the other.
At the very least, Trump is a wannabe fascist dictator. That would be his ultimate dream. He ticks more than enough of the boxes.
TBH the one thing I don't quite see him as is the ultimate expression of neoliberalism. His fascist aims go counter to the interests of capital in many instances. His obsession with tariffs is a case in point. Didn't stop the stock market from going up with his election, mind.
Cultivation of a cult of personality around the leader is essential. That leader is transactional. He (doesn't have to be a he - extreme mysogyny and promotion at least superficially of traditional values is characteristic but not essential) surrounds himself with those whom he has done favours and who have done him favours, but he is brutal with them - they compete with each other to do his bidding, and he encourages this process.
The vision of the state is corporatist, denying class as a legitimate concept, while at the same time, the leader is the champion of the worker and the common man (more rarely the common woman as well, but in most fascist conceptions, a woman is an extension of, and secondary to, a man). His vision of society, such as it is, is corporatist. It is likely based heavily around the family unit.
The leader is disdainful of the democratic processes that he may have used to gain power, and subverts them wherever he can. Dissenters are pursued. To disagree with him is to be his enemy. The fascist also has a keen interest in control over the dissemination of information and seeks to be the final arbiter of truth. He is vengeful and may be capricious, and to speak against him in any way is to lose favour immediately.
Fascism is aggressively nationalist. It looks backwards to an invented history to justify its nationalism. It is an aggressive xenophobic nationalism. It defines its in-group and persecutes its out-group.
The fascist may or may not lean on religion. If he does so, the primary purpose of this is to enforce the in-group identity. He scapegoats aggressively and blames his own failings and failures on the outgroup, hatred of which he cultivates assiduously (and that out-group can and will include various 'enemies within'). Cultivating hatred is characteristic of fascism. You love your own and you hate the other.
At the very least, Trump is a wannabe fascist dictator. That would be his ultimate dream. He ticks more than enough of the boxes.
TBH the one thing I don't quite see him as is the ultimate expression of neoliberalism. His fascist aims go counter to the interests of capital in many instances. His obsession with tariffs is a case in point. Didn't stop the stock market from going up with his election, mind.
Yeah we are really in uncharted territory, 1930s is the go-to analogy but there are a lot of differences.
Unprecedented things always happen in history, that's the continuity.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
The dialectic init. But even that seems broken at times. “The conversation” now seems to me so complex, alien, and fragmented. Ah well! I guess you can never predict what will come out of anything even changes like that which are unfolding.
You wonder where the checks and balances are going to come in. Domestically the other is the migrant and the leftist.
Say the police become more politicised, they are already militarised.
The media is either pro-Trump or 'fake news/leftist'. Excuses can be found to suppress or dominate and restrict it.
Things go bad (events, economically), it's the 'left's' fault.
Say the police become more politicised, they are already militarised.
The media is either pro-Trump or 'fake news/leftist'. Excuses can be found to suppress or dominate and restrict it.
Things go bad (events, economically), it's the 'left's' fault.
Sir Belchalot
arenicola marina
Rumoured that he might be pushing for his generals to swear allegiance to him rather than the constitution. Must have been reading up on Hitler again, if true.
breadandcircuse
"The time is always right to do what is right"
And so it begins. Here you go, welcome to the fascist states of America. Decent countries would have these bastards behind bars so fast. The orange fucker has enabled the morons.
breadandcircuse
"The time is always right to do what is right"
If it wasn't so fucking dangerous that these morons are so stupid, it would be hilarious. And yes, they are stupid. More of the fuck around and find out brigade 
.
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Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
But that's the case with most debates we have on here, particularly in relation to what for most of us is overseas politics. And 'blaming X' or saying that 'Y should do X' is really just a way of setting out what we think is wrong or needs to happen in a particular situation. The caveat with that is that the trajectory and failure of the democrats rings a bell with what has happened to labour over here. Similarly, ,whilst we have no influence on the Dems, this all feels very real and impactful. Whether you call it fascism or just a real time clusterfuck, this is very immediate and will have significant consequences.
True but surely we should be asking what "the left" should be doing rather than what the Democratic Party or the Labour Party should be doing?
The left has become basically irrelevant politically, despite leftist ideas having some popularity. Why that is and how to overcome it is the salient question here.
I remember when I first become politically aware the left was all about anti-globalisation. They were going against the neoliberal grain at the time and have kind of been proven right in many ways but somehow it is the right who have made political capital out of it.
Part of it IMO was the post-Cold War left reacting against the failures of Marxist Leninism and being allergic to any kind of organisation, so there hasn't been any kind of consistency and the left wing anti-globalisation movement has been totally forgotten. There doesn't exist any left wing organisation to say "that's what we've been saying all along!"
There is potential for a sudden resurgence I think which is what we almost saw when Corbyn and Sanders suddenly looked like contenders.
Ultimately, the problem comes down to a lack of funding, good look getting billionaire donors for an anti-capitalist party. That's why the last chance of a leftist resurgence took the shape of trying to takeover existing parties rather than forming new ones, but that failed and the opportunity is unlikely to arise again. It only arose because the establishment underestimated the extent to which leftist ideas were popular - likely because of their lack of visible representation - and they've since closed ranks.
Why lack of funding? Two reasons. First, historic ties between trade unions and existing but compromised social democratic parties. Secondly, general decline of trade unions due to the ability of capital to simply move jobs overseas whenever wages rise too much.
The latter is essentially the root of the left's woes and we can't really move forward without finding a way to address this issue.
I think reviving the left requires the following strategy.
1) You need to create the conditions in which democratic life and the ability of working class interests to be formally represented and able to provide funds for political movements can return. I think a platform focusing on reviving and reforming democracy in the face of authoritarian threats is a good approach because you can probably get some rich backers. It's very now, call out Labour's inevitable collaboration with Trump as a betrayal of democracy, there's definitely space for rapid momentum if you can get things off the ground. Political reform to create the necessary conditions must come before tackling the interests of capital.
2) A progressive critique of globalisation to protect jobs and conditions and promotion of an alter-globalisation - promoting international organisations which can tackle tax havens, trying to internationalise trade unions in particular sectors, etc.
I feel like with the right approach the left could explode onto the scene relatively quickly as so many people are calling out for it, but reaching any kind of consensus on the approach to take is still a long shot.
They spent billions on stimulus payments over there as well. And there are unemployment benefits, disability benefits, public housing projects just as there are here. In some cases much better than here. People need to lose this conceit that the UK has a uniquely functional safety net, it doesn't, in fact compared to comparable economies it is one of the worst.
Don't disagree with your point about it being the economy though.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Trump got less votes than last time. It’s just the Democrats got even less.
I’m also wondering how long until the UN throws in the towel. Politically they are powerless and have been for decades, the only political power they had was when being used by the US as a stick to beat opponents. All the aid and climate stuff is of no use to Trump, and plenty of other states in opposition, especially petrostates who have much to lose. Where the fuck does all this go now?
Most of that is Duginism isn’t it? Putin is very much the strong leader / traditional values / murder opponents type. Yet there are differences with Trump, Russia still has some social provision and embraces this, sees the state as the patriarchal provider. Trump is more about tear it all down and every man for himself. Different flavours of authoritarian shit. Is this the choices the world has now?
I’m also wondering how long until the UN throws in the towel. Politically they are powerless and have been for decades, the only political power they had was when being used by the US as a stick to beat opponents. All the aid and climate stuff is of no use to Trump, and plenty of other states in opposition, especially petrostates who have much to lose. Where the fuck does all this go now?
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
The party did move to the left (at least in some fashion) after the 2016 loss. Of course that does not mean it will do so this time but the response from Biden in 202 was to try and reconnect with the base.
*************
Blaming a long time union rep tired out by the attacks on workers, a BLM activist that saw Harris' past record of support for racist police forces, militant anti-fascists who understand that it is a three way fight, those horrified by the active support for Isreal, or a worker who is just so tired of struggling and could not bring themselves to vote for Harris for the rise of hard right populism is - at best - back to front.
Yossarian
Get thee behind me, Santa
If people don't want to vote that's their business and there are certainly many reasons for people to find the Democratic Party sickening - but the people claiming "both parties are as bad as each other" at this point either aren't paying attention or don't care about the marginalised groups Trump is intent on persecuting - and have also somehow failed to notice that we are experiencing a worsening environmental catastrophe that requires urgent action
mojo pixy
interesting times
I was comparing the US to Europe more generally (I know the UK's welfare system can be quite stingy compared to other european systems), but fair enough - from what you say the US welfare system may be more generous than I thought.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
It really didn’t move to the left.
Some left voices broke through, mostly against the will of the top of the party, but that was fundamentally down to the same reason as Trump winning and their vote collapsing - that the standard of the people at the top declined to such an extent that they could no longer straddle the gap between their own interests and those of their constituents.
A healthy party would have reacted to 2016 with a purge of everyone whose incompetence led to that disaster, reformed and come out better for the years ahead. They didn’t do that, and there’s precious little sign they will do it after this defeat either.
To be fair the USA has never been a 'decent country' or a full democracy either.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
This provides an analysis and what is meant by 'three way fight' in an antifash sense... Notes on Trump/MAGA 2024
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