emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
They didn't vote againt him either.
Fuck em isn't a good poltical response. But I think it's valid emotional reaction.
Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion
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Fuck em isn't a good poltical response. But I think it's valid emotional reaction.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Maybe and you are entitled to that response, a bit of me feels the same. But - of the Democrats - it says: look, we might have done this a bit better, but ultimately the problem is you, the voters. Next time, sort yourself out/become less stupid etc. That's not a recipe for overturning the conditions that took us to this point. Quite the opposite, it takes us back to the deplorables.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I don't think anyone is suggesting there is no blame for the Democrats, I certainly wouldn't. But people have agency they choose to vote or not and they choose who to vote for. And people are accountable for the choices they make, so yes some of the blame sits with the Democrats, but some of it also sits with the people who voted Trump and yes some of the blame is with some of the people who chose not to vote. So urm yes lots of blame to go around.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
But where does that take you? What does it do to challenge fascism in America? What does it build?
Puddy_Tat
happy mew year
but will the dems take the lesson from this result that they haven't shifted far enough to the right?
that seems to be the new labour reaction to a bad poll / result...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
They may well do, with some rich slicker like Newsom. Bernie Sanders is warning against it. But he always does.
I think Mr Overton, he of the fenestral bent, has something to answer for here. It is perhaps a useful concept as a description, but I think some people have seen it as a prescription. And I'm not sure how good it is even as a description any more.
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
Yes, if it still applies, it does so in the form of at least one window per bubble.
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
hitmouse
entreprenulsoip critical thinking
Surely that prediction won't come to pass, the 2029 election will be a landslide for Labour on the back of the national spirit of elation about how much Starmer and Reeves' wise policies have improved everyone's lives. The only way tories or Reform could be competitive in that election would be if there was a widespread perception that the new government hadn't done anything to change things for the better but had overseen a continuation of the ongoing general decline in living standards. And that hardly sounds likely, now does it?
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Well first, why does it have to? People can feel how they want and complain and vent without it building anything. And let's be honest none of us here are going to have much impact whatever.
But I could also ask you the same question? Why is focusing on the faults of the Democrats the best way to oppose fascism? Shouldn't the focus be on oppose fascists? Which would be Trump's supporters?
I think focusing on just then faults of the Democrats ignores the larger picture and is therefore not a good guide to building an opposition to fascism.
I'm not sure if fascism is accurate, but I don't really care about the lable, it's fucking awful either way.
hitmouse
entreprenulsoip critical thinking
This is the trouble with trying use categories like individual blame and morality around an institution like the electoral college. Are non-voters in Wyoming or Vermont to blame for the result, or does that stigma only attach to non-voters in the seven or so states that actually matter?
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Yeah blaming none voters is odd as there are lots of causes where it just doesn't matter.
But it is still a choice and people need to own the choices they make.
mojo pixy
interesting times
In comfy old Europe it's easy to forget that in the USA to a large extent with elections it really is just, the economy. Unlike here there's really no safety net to speak of in the US, if you lose your job and can't get another, you're fucked. If you can't pay your mortgage or rent there's no council with a duty to house your kids; unless you're in with a church or have family or friends who can help, you're just fucked. Whoever is perceived as 'better for the economy' will usually win, because the state of the economy has a lot more bearing on the average citizen's everyday life than it does here. Look at what happened eg during covid, the government chucked money at basically everyone, literal billions. Our Welfare spend including pensions and the NHS is a third? of our entire GDP. Stuff like that doesn't happen in the USA, and I do think it was 'the economy' that swung it for Trump.
Still, now the monsters are out of the closet and in charge
'the economy' may well be fucked, I don't know if those average citizens concerned about the economy necessarily suspected that once in, Trump would appoint the very worst people in America to run the government. What they'll do till the midterms in two years .. I mean at least there's that. If this lot really do shit the bed at least in two years they might have earned themselves some electoral pushback. Unless midterms get abolished...?
Who the fuck knows at this point.
Still, now the monsters are out of the closet and in charge
'the economy' may well be fucked, I don't know if those average citizens concerned about the economy necessarily suspected that once in, Trump would appoint the very worst people in America to run the government. What they'll do till the midterms in two years .. I mean at least there's that. If this lot really do shit the bed at least in two years they might have earned themselves some electoral pushback. Unless midterms get abolished...?Who the fuck knows at this point.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Well, of course oppose fascism/authoritarianism directly. Of course. But fascism doesn't equal Trump voters at all. It certainly includes the MAGA types and plenty others in his mad coalition, but reducing this down to his voters, which you've been arguing, is neither accurate nor helpful. However much we might want to gripe about them at the moment.
And it's not predominantly about focusing on the Dems as a party out of context, it's about the decades of neoliberalism that they have come to embrace. It's about the wider shift away from working class communities, which they do also embody. So, it's about building something different and, if you are into electoral politics, it does focus on what the Democrats do, where they organise and who they represent.
Yossarian
Get thee behind me, Santa
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
AKA, Vivaldi.
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
Has he paid up that 50 million yet? Or whatever it was?
Serene
Slightly disgruntled
Robert F Kennedy was driving through NY when he saw a Bear carcass on the road. He put the Bear in the back of his car to decide what to do with it. At the end of the day he had been sidetracked with a few things and hadnt thought what he was going to do with it, so he put it in Central park and tried to make it look l;ike a cycling accident. ( Just been on CNN ) He also said that 5g wi-fi gives people cancer. Many more. Trump has just said he is going to let Kennedy go wild in the health department.
Good short piece
Going Forward from the Edge of the Abyss
Adolph Reed, Jr. nonsite. November 11, 2024
Going Forward from the Edge of the Abyss
Adolph Reed, Jr. nonsite. November 11, 2024
maomao
普費斯
Is there a big difference in result between 'yes, get on with the genocide' and 'please don't do a genocide here have more weapons for the genocide'?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
We can all agree that Trump is all of those things but essentially not being Trump wasn't sufficient to stop Trump. The same phenomenon of centrism failing to meet the aspirations of working class voters has been played out in Europe as well.
A number of posters on here have pointed out the deficiencies of the Democrat's campaign and why it floundered when the stakes were high.
Responding to sections of the Democrat's voter base of 2020 as richly deserving of everything they get isn't a strategy to try and win them back, nor to defend their overall interests or even understand them. Neither is yet another house analogy. Its just something that might looks good to some on social media after an election defeat.
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PTK
Paul Kegan
Wait... what??? Putin and Assad shill Tulsi Gabbard has been appointed Director of National Intelligence.
Is not the case that the Syrian state became pro-US back in 1990-91, when it supported the US-led war on Iraq?
Everybody should be terrified of the new secretary of defense
Pete Hegseth, Trump’s Pentagon pick, sparks alarm over far-right extremism
Experts concerned over the Fox & Friends host, his Christian nationalist ideology and militant language
Tldr?
A look at Hegseth's views and it ain't pretty. Positively reeks of Christofascism.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
It's hard trying to work out which is worst/most dangerous. A broiling herd of wildebeest... of lunatics.Everybody should be terrified of the new secretary of defense
Pete Hegseth, Trump’s Pentagon pick, sparks alarm over far-right extremism
Experts concerned over the Fox & Friends host, his Christian nationalist ideology and militant languagewww.theguardian.com
Tldr?
A look at Hegseth's views and it ain't pretty. Positively reeks of Christofascism.
You'd think there will be horse trading as to which ones get through though, no, I suspect trump thinks he'll get them all. Fuck.
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