emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
They didn't vote againt him either.
Fuck em isn't a good poltical response. But I think it's valid emotional reaction.
Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion
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Fuck em isn't a good poltical response. But I think it's valid emotional reaction.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Maybe and you are entitled to that response, a bit of me feels the same. But - of the Democrats - it says: look, we might have done this a bit better, but ultimately the problem is you, the voters. Next time, sort yourself out/become less stupid etc. That's not a recipe for overturning the conditions that took us to this point. Quite the opposite, it takes us back to the deplorables.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I don't think anyone is suggesting there is no blame for the Democrats, I certainly wouldn't. But people have agency they choose to vote or not and they choose who to vote for. And people are accountable for the choices they make, so yes some of the blame sits with the Democrats, but some of it also sits with the people who voted Trump and yes some of the blame is with some of the people who chose not to vote. So urm yes lots of blame to go around.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
But where does that take you? What does it do to challenge fascism in America? What does it build?
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
but will the dems take the lesson from this result that they haven't shifted far enough to the right?
that seems to be the new labour reaction to a bad poll / result...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
They may well do, with some rich slicker like Newsom. Bernie Sanders is warning against it. But he always does.
I think Mr Overton, he of the fenestral bent, has something to answer for here. It is perhaps a useful concept as a description, but I think some people have seen it as a prescription. And I'm not sure how good it is even as a description any more.
Yes, if it still applies, it does so in the form of at least one window per bubble.
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Surely that prediction won't come to pass, the 2029 election will be a landslide for Labour on the back of the national spirit of elation about how much Starmer and Reeves' wise policies have improved everyone's lives. The only way tories or Reform could be competitive in that election would be if there was a widespread perception that the new government hadn't done anything to change things for the better but had overseen a continuation of the ongoing general decline in living standards. And that hardly sounds likely, now does it?
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Well first, why does it have to? People can feel how they want and complain and vent without it building anything. And let's be honest none of us here are going to have much impact whatever.
But I could also ask you the same question? Why is focusing on the faults of the Democrats the best way to oppose fascism? Shouldn't the focus be on oppose fascists? Which would be Trump's supporters?
I think focusing on just then faults of the Democrats ignores the larger picture and is therefore not a good guide to building an opposition to fascism.
I'm not sure if fascism is accurate, but I don't really care about the lable, it's fucking awful either way.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
This is the trouble with trying use categories like individual blame and morality around an institution like the electoral college. Are non-voters in Wyoming or Vermont to blame for the result, or does that stigma only attach to non-voters in the seven or so states that actually matter?
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Yeah blaming none voters is odd as there are lots of causes where it just doesn't matter.
But it is still a choice and people need to own the choices they make.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
In comfy old Europe it's easy to forget that in the USA to a large extent with elections it really is just, the economy. Unlike here there's really no safety net to speak of in the US, if you lose your job and can't get another, you're fucked. If you can't pay your mortgage or rent there's no council with a duty to house your kids; unless you're in with a church or have family or friends who can help, you're just fucked. Whoever is perceived as 'better for the economy' will usually win, because the state of the economy has a lot more bearing on the average citizen's everyday life than it does here. Look at what happened eg during covid, the government chucked money at basically everyone, literal billions. Our Welfare spend including pensions and the NHS is a third? of our entire GDP. Stuff like that doesn't happen in the USA, and I do think it was 'the economy' that swung it for Trump.
Still, now the monsters are out of the closet and in charge
'the economy' may well be fucked, I don't know if those average citizens concerned about the economy necessarily suspected that once in, Trump would appoint the very worst people in America to run the government. What they'll do till the midterms in two years .. I mean at least there's that. If this lot really do shit the bed at least in two years they might have earned themselves some electoral pushback. Unless midterms get abolished...?
Who the fuck knows at this point.
Still, now the monsters are out of the closet and in charge
'the economy' may well be fucked, I don't know if those average citizens concerned about the economy necessarily suspected that once in, Trump would appoint the very worst people in America to run the government. What they'll do till the midterms in two years .. I mean at least there's that. If this lot really do shit the bed at least in two years they might have earned themselves some electoral pushback. Unless midterms get abolished...?Who the fuck knows at this point.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Well, of course oppose fascism/authoritarianism directly. Of course. But fascism doesn't equal Trump voters at all. It certainly includes the MAGA types and plenty others in his mad coalition, but reducing this down to his voters, which you've been arguing, is neither accurate nor helpful. However much we might want to gripe about them at the moment.
And it's not predominantly about focusing on the Dems as a party out of context, it's about the decades of neoliberalism that they have come to embrace. It's about the wider shift away from working class communities, which they do also embody. So, it's about building something different and, if you are into electoral politics, it does focus on what the Democrats do, where they organise and who they represent.
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