Bitcoin discussion and news

[fredfelt]

Thats exactly what I do.
Except for right when it started, and it was something like 0.1 per $. I managed to generate loads by mining.

And I think it was you who first made me aware of Bitcoins - so thanks for that!

 

[Idaho]

Or destroy the tax-base and leave the other suckers to pick up the bill.

I don't think that is very likely. If you want to launder money, there are better ways to do it.

 

[ymu]

Nothing to do with money laundering. That is making dodgy money clean (which usually includes paying some tax on it). Untraceable payments make it impossible to tax people appropriately. I think we went over this earlier in this or a different thread. This is fundamentally a nasty right-wing anti-tax currency and I find it abhorrent.

 

[Idaho]

I don't think it's as simple as that. Large corporations move trillions in normal currencies without paying tax. Transfer pricing. Bit coins seem a good way for normal people to move money around at low cost without paying huge fees to banks. Are you saying that banks are protecting us from some tax free dystopia?

 

[ymu]

I don't support tax avoidance by multinationals, no. Someone has to pay for the economic infrastructure that makes people rich; those that dodge paying their fair share are scum. Bitcoin is a right-wing libertarian project; they don't care that tax is being avoided, they just want a way to be able to do it without having to be a multinational.

Banks scam money out of us in all sorts of ways that need tackling, but I've never had a charge made for a normal transaction and if charges apply I avoid them by paying cash directly into the other person's account.

These kinds of excuses are weak, weak, weak. If you can't beat them, join them. Screw everybody else.

 

[Idaho]

Technology changes. The world changes. In principle, all bitcoin is doing is creating a crowd sourced currency. It's using the technology and creating something new. Transactions in a country to your friends don't cost. But how about people sending money abroad? I don't really see what it has to do with tax tbh.

 

[ymu]

Really? It comes up an awful lot.

Bitcoin and taxes - not that complicated

Many observers ask the following questions, "How is Bitcoin taxed?" or, "How should Bitcoin be taxed?" or, "Can the Government tax Bitcoin at all?" Leaving aside the moral arguments regarding the forced extraction of wealth from people who may be opposed to their money being spent on drone assassinations of families in Afghanistan, taxation of Bitcoin is actually not as awkward as most people think. Let's explore...

Already, US citizens are required to report any valuable assets that they obtain as income, whether it's dollars or euros or bricks of gold or valuable Beanie Babies.

Bitcoin, then, is already "taxed" by default. Regardless of its nature, it is already taxed today. Even though the IRS cannot ever know for sure how much Bitcoin a person has received, the reporting requirements are no different from cash itself.

It's largely an anti-tax community and the untraceability of it is a huge part of the attraction. If it was just about avoiding banking charges, there's be no need for transactions to be untraceable.

 

[Idaho]

That's American law. Who gives a toss about that? Unlike us, US citizens have to pay US taxes on money they earn abroad.

I saw you were active on the id card thread arguing against omniscient government oversight of citizens activities. Why the switch?

 

[Corax]

Yup.

Blimey. Are the cops just really stupid or something?

 

[ExtraRefined]

Nothing to do with money laundering. That is making dodgy money clean (which usually includes paying some tax on it). Untraceable payments make it impossible to tax people appropriately. I think we went over this earlier in this or a different thread. This is fundamentally a nasty right-wing anti-tax currency and I find it abhorrent.

WAH WAH WAH CRY MOAR

 

[ymu]

^^^ Proves my point.

That's American law. Who gives a toss about that? Unlike us, US citizens have to pay US taxes on money they earn abroad.

I saw you were active on the id card thread arguing against omniscient government oversight of citizens activities. Why the switch?

If you read the threads, you'd know. There's another one going on right now where I've explained my position again.

How come you didn't bring up all those tax threads where I am so clearly in favour of dodging it?

US law has nothing to do with it. The UK government relies on honesty too, and the difficulty of hiding most transactions keeps people honest.

 

[Idaho]

I don't understand why people who are so (rightly) cynical and critical of governments and their motives, suddenly become total converts to the honest virtues of our humble brother-leaders on the topic of tax.

 

[ymu]

That may be because you have the political sophistication of a gnat.

 

[Fez909]

Because paying tax is the right thing to do. The things that governments do, and are criticised for, are the wrong thing to do. Aside from the fact that "paying tax" and "government" are two separate things, you must obviously know that not everything the government does can be criticised.

 

[Santino]

How come people who purport to hate the government obey traffic lights? Hypocritical scum.

 

[Idaho]

Bitcoin is mainly used to either buy drugs or send money overseas. Neither of which need involve government oversight.

I think it's a territorial objection. It is decentralised and doesn't have a moral or political agenda.

Do you honestly believe that encryption, technology, currency etc are going to stay the same during the communications revolution? Although if you are one of those people who think that politics has stayed the same since 1930 then maybe it's not such a big leap.

 

[ymu]

Where have I ever said that politics has stayed the same since 1930? You reaching a bit too hard for a response, Mr Gnat?

 

[Idaho]

I would answer but I am so devastated by being called Mr Gnat that... Er...

It's like being called a mild and quaint insult by a 10 year old who is trying to impress the gang of slightly older boys he's with. Those older boys feeling partly indulgent and partly embarrassed.

 

[Idaho]

How come people who purport to hate the government obey traffic lights? Hypocritical scum.

A straw man. Bitcoin itself isn't breaking any laws.

 

[Santino]

A straw man. Bitcoin itself isn't breaking any laws.

Category error. Guns don't break laws either.

 

[Wolveryeti]

Bitcoin is becoming a lot more heavily monitored these days - the exchanges are for instance requesting verifiable ID. I'm not sure how it would be possible to cash out a lot of BC without attracting attention - or accepting an uncompetitive rate in exchange for suitcase cash (in which case it's only illegal vendors who'd bother). So it is a tax issue for illegal vendors, but they don't pay tax anyway.

 

[ymu]

I would answer but I am so devastated by being called Mr Gnat that... Er...

It's like being called a mild and quaint insult by a 10 year old who is trying to impress the gang of slightly older boys he's with. Those older boys feeling partly indulgent and partly embarrassed.

Ooh, your content-free insults are really convincing me that you know what you're talking about, Mr Gnat.

And yes, I am insulting you. Because you are insulting me with this vacuous shite. Admit to being an inane right-winger or explain how avoiding tax has anything to do with progressive politics. Or chuck out more content-free insults to confirm that you are indeed fucking clueless.

Pick one.

 

[Idaho]

Bitcoin is becoming a lot more heavily monitored these days - the exchanges are for instance requesting verifiable ID. I'm not sure how it would be possible to cash out a lot of BC without attracting attention - or accepting an uncompetitive rate in exchange for suitcase cash (in which case it's only illegal vendors who'd bother). So it is a tax issue for illegal vendors, but they don't pay tax anyway.

Well quite. It's a currency, and as such can be used for all the good and ill a currency can be used for.

 

[Idaho]

Category error. Guns don't break laws either.

Analogy fail. It is both illegal to possess and use guns except where you have a specific licence.

 

[ymu]

That's sub-Pickman's in pedantic point-missingness.

Category error. Legally-owned guns don't break laws either.

Fight your way out of that paper bag, Mr Gnat.

 

[Santino]

Analogy fail. It is both illegal to possess and use guns except where you have a specific licence.

It's still a category error. Guns in and of themselves don't break laws, people break laws.

 

[Idaho]

Ok if I concede that critical point will you concede the lesser point that bitcoin isn't illegal?

 

[Santino]

Ok if I concede that critical point will you concede the lesser point that bitcoin isn't illegal?

I couldn't give a shit.

 

[Idaho]

Ok, so we have angry boy and dopey man on the thread. When are cheeky and sneezy turning up?

 

[ymu]

Still on the content-free insults? You do know how transparent that is, don't you?