XL Bully dog - discussion
- Thread starter platinumsage
- Start date
8ball
Decolonise colons!
You clearly know a lot about DNA and computers.
Are we about to have a dubious claim to authority?
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Are we about to have a dubious claim to authority?
I bet my DNA-computer willy is longer than yours.
Steel Icarus
we move
Ok, so now we're onto how to kill an XL DNA Willy
8ball
Decolonise colons!
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
Angry reaction not aimed at you, but at the fucker who's dog bit your grand-daughter.
TheWolfshead
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more. If a person's ego is that fragile that it needs propping up, they should find some other way.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
You imagine wrong.
This kind of genetic testing relies on taking a small set of genetic loci and comparing them to a database. The database will likely not be a very good one. Particularly with dogs, who you can't interview when you take their DNA to ask them what breed they are. So every dog in the database you're comparing to will have been arbitrarily categorised as one 'breed' or another. I don't know much about computer science but I do know that a fundamental law of the universe is 'garbage in, garbage out'.
Then there's the methodology. I'm not familiar with the precise mechanics of dog DNA testing but I would expect them to use either restriction fragment length polymorphism data or microsatellite repeat data. Neither one of these corresponds directly to the function of any gene which affects the dogs morphology, physiology, or anything else. Microsatellites are non-coding, junk DNA. Useful for data science purposes when you've got a big, high quality database extensively cross-referenced with physiological and morphological data as we increasingly do for humans and for other commonly used model organisms like fruit flies, zebrafish, rhesus monkeys, white mice etc. But pretty meaningless for determining the breed of a dog.
Dogs are pretty unique for the range of morphology observed in a single species, and also in the extent of selective breeding they have endured. Not only have they likely been domesticated for longer than any other species, but they're the only species we will deliberately inbreed even at serious cost to health, longevity etc. The only comparable case would probably be broiler chickens, and even they can probably still function as independent organisms better than a fucking pug or similar abomination.
'Machine learning' does not yet exist. What goes by that name is just brute force data analysis but with more brute force. And as with all data analysis, whether by supercomputers or a human with a notebook and a pencil, if you put garbage in you get garbage out.
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SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Fragile male egos account for a lot of terrible things, from mutant weapon-dogs to steroid abuse to ridiculous overpowered cars. I believe the correct amount of risk to the public that should be tolerated in the name of making sad twats temporarily feel a bit less like sad twats is zero.
Not exclusively male egos of course, but let's be honest here, mostly male egos.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
^This! This is the bit that's most important to me.
I have a bit of a dog phobia. A dog went for me when I was a child and I've been scared of dogs ever since. I only escaped by jumping over a wall, otherwise I dread to think what might happen.
What pisses me off the most, if someone's dog starts to run towards me or, worse, jump up at me, and I squeal 'Call your dog off, I'm scared of dogs!' is when the owner nonchalantly replies 'He's only being friendly' 'She doesn't bite' 'Won't do any harm'.
Wtf?!?!? Yes, you're welcome to love your dog and everyone else's dogs. I don't. I do not love your fucking dog. I do not want your fucking dog running towards me. I do not want your fucking dog jumping up at me.
That does not reassure me in the slightest. They're still letting their dog run towards me and jump up at terrified me.
What does reassure me is if the owner whistles and/or calls out 'Fido! Heel!' or 'Fido! Here boy!' and the dog responds obediently. Because then I know that it's a well trained and well behaved dog that likely poses no threat to me.
A dog owner yelling at me 'He's a softy, won't bite you!' doesn't reassure me, because all that does is tell me that the owner doesn't give a shit and doesn't have their animal under control, and thus is more likely to pose a threat to me. And yelling at me that the dog doesn't bite doesn't reassure me either, because you often read in the papers after a savage dog attack that hasn't bitten someone before, 'out of character', 'wouldn't harm a fly' until it savaged someone's face off.
If a dog can't be trusted when it's off leash not to run towards and jump up at random people, then it shouldn't be off leash, frankly, because no, not everyone loves your fucking dog, in fact many people actively dislike dogs and/or are scared of them.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
You‘d use use whole-genome sequencing, RFLP is basically obsolete nowadays. You’d get the breeder organsition wankers to give you pedigree dogs to sample and when you’ve fed it enough sequences vs other dog ones it’d be pretty easy for the algorithm to work out what it needs to see to get pit bull = yes. It would obviously be even be cheaper and easier to do it on physical characteristics though, show it 3D renders of dogs and it will easily be able to distinguish between breeds. It won’t even need a 100% accuracy rate - if the breeder pedigree wankers disagree then the computer will be correct and they will be wrong, and the dog destroyed or whatever. I mean, the dog is banned becuase it has these characteristics, not because of what a breeder says about it. If people don’t want to acquire dogs that might be seized they should get a fucking sausage dog or whatever. It’s not rocket science to avoid skirting the limits of what might be deemed dangerous.
nogojones
spelling is overrated
I'd ban them as well. Snappy little fuckers
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Yes but all this is based on the assumption that any given dog is a mixture of 'pure' breeds x, y and z. This is false. Most dogs will have no pure anything in their ancestry, and are merely dogs. Even 'pure breeds' are not consistent over time; not least because severely inbreeding animals leads to an accumulation of deleterious traits. Compare a pedigree english bulldog with one from 100 years ago; what was once a strong, handsome creature is now degenerate lump of flesh that can't breathe or walk properly. Sourcing your data from the very people responsible for this systematic abuse of living creatures does not seem like a good way to get information. And nobody wants accurate information anyway. The kind of twats who would send of a sample of their dog's DNA and pay cash money to find out what it is, is not going to be happy to learn that said dog is 100% pure mongrel. Nobody is going to recommend that service to a friend, even though it would be much more accurate than any of this '34.8% labrador, 14.61% chihuahua' bollocks.
And I seriously doubt anyone is sequencing an entire dog genome for one pointless test. And even if they did, you'd still need to run your comparison based on specific genetic loci. And again, the unique history of dogs as a species makes false positives as a result of convergent evolution much more likely, as different people will have selected different populations of dogs for similar characteristics on multiple occasions. So I would say a shared genetic locus in two dogs was less likely to be informative of shared ancestry than it would be in an undomesticated species. These kind of caveats are also not going to go in the report of your dog's DNA score, because again the service is one that only an idiot would use in the first place.
e2a: The website of the dog testing company linked to early states that they use microsatellite data, not whole-genome sequencing. Microsatellites are non-coding sequences, which has advantages like reducing the likely effects of convergent evolution, but disadvantages in that the information you're considering has no bearing on morphology, which is how we actually assign dogs to 'breeds' in the real world.
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A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
I'm the same with dogs. I'm quite scared of them. If you allowed a child to behave in the way some not so good dog owners let their dogs behave you'd be ostracised.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
You say that but there are plenty of feral children about. And some dogs may be dangerous but at least they don't talk, and cannot operate potentially destructive things like bluetooth speakers or fire.
Absolutely all this. I'm not keen on dogs and hate when they jump up and owners come out with that stuff too.
My sister was bitten by a huge Alsatian when she was a kid. 35 years later, she'll literally cross the road if she sees one coming towards her on the pavement.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Makes me wonder how many times kids get literally knocked over by these thoughtless people's dogs. A toddler is tiny compared to even a medium-sized dog.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Even the drummer?
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Definitely not the Deal sisters tho. I love the Deal sisters.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Not so much thoughtless, but when my children were young, we had large dogs.
On many occasions, the dog's wagging tail slammed the kids into a wall or threw them off balance in the yard.
Now they are adults, I asked them it if bothered them. They had no problem with it, taught them about "spatial awareness".
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
On knocking children over, that's up to six months in jail for the owner:
"A dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person or assistance dog, whether or not it actually does so"
"A dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person or assistance dog, whether or not it actually does so"
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I pondered for a bit there on whether "bluetooth speakers" was an autocorrect error.
But the most lexically plausible think I could come up with was "bazookas", which I'm sure I would have heard about.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
Don't leave your dog charging overnight
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
Has anyone ever tried giving them a wank instead?
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
A good friend of mine had a half-pibble many years back. Very lovable, friendly dog and all that. I'm not a dog person, but I quite enjoyed having her about. But it was still a dog. Treat with caution, and never, ever raise your voice to the Master. And that's how I felt with a well-raised dog and a good owner. Now for some of these clowns out there... Well.
That said, most dog injuries happen in the home, and often with children. I don't understand how dog owners seem to forget that it's an animal and not a human being. Most cat owners (or the ones with all their limbs intact) wouldn't dream of pulling the cat's ears and then shoving their face in front of theirs for the quite correct reason that they'd stand a rather good chance of losing an eye to the experience. There's something in a lot of dog owners that short circuits this defence mechanism and they think it's quite alright to expose other people to their idiocy.
That said, most dog injuries happen in the home, and often with children. I don't understand how dog owners seem to forget that it's an animal and not a human being. Most cat owners (or the ones with all their limbs intact) wouldn't dream of pulling the cat's ears and then shoving their face in front of theirs for the quite correct reason that they'd stand a rather good chance of losing an eye to the experience. There's something in a lot of dog owners that short circuits this defence mechanism and they think it's quite alright to expose other people to their idiocy.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
don't give them positive reinforcement
Siouxsie
Fashionable objector with a uniform fetish
I've had both large.... Long hair German Shepherds and a Great Dane, along with small dogs.... Westies and a Lhasa apso, over the years.
The German Shepherd was soft as a brush but he would kill to save me, of that I have no doubt...when I was 6 I fell through the roof of the farm next door, I was screaming because I'd landed on top of a milking machine and couldn't move...my older brother always relates this story..he was standing in the garden when he heard me screaming and the next minute the male dog cleared the 8 ft barn wall like it wasn't there and the female one ran like the wind down the lanes to get to me, they stood guarding me and would not let anyone, including my father get anywhere close until I told them to lie down....only time I witness them like that..we used to ride on their backs as kids and I used to dress him up in bonnets and little daisy chains, plaited his tail, just normal irritating kid stuff...never any reactions just love and loyalty.
The male Westie was a right nasty little get at times, really couldn't trust him at all. The lhasa is quite growly and snappy with people she doesn't know.
The Great Dane was soft as muck and as strong as hell.....Mr S is 6ft 5 and built light the proverbial...she once was playing with him and he held on to her collar in a bear hug type grip, she dragged him up onto his feet from sitting on the floor if one easy movement, it took us totally by surprise!
Moral of the story....you really can't foresee what dogs are capable of no matter how well you think you know them.
The German Shepherd was soft as a brush but he would kill to save me, of that I have no doubt...when I was 6 I fell through the roof of the farm next door, I was screaming because I'd landed on top of a milking machine and couldn't move...my older brother always relates this story
..he was standing in the garden when he heard me screaming and the next minute the male dog cleared the 8 ft barn wall like it wasn't there and the female one ran like the wind down the lanes to get to me, they stood guarding me and would not let anyone, including my father get anywhere close until I told them to lie down....only time I witness them like that..we used to ride on their backs as kids and I used to dress him up in bonnets and little daisy chains, plaited his tail, just normal irritating kid stuff...never any reactions just love and loyalty.The male Westie was a right nasty little get at times, really couldn't trust him at all. The lhasa is quite growly and snappy with people she doesn't know.
The Great Dane was soft as muck and as strong as hell.....Mr S is 6ft 5 and built light the proverbial...she once was playing with him and he held on to her collar in a bear hug type grip, she dragged him up onto his feet from sitting on the floor if one easy movement, it took us totally by surprise!
Moral of the story....you really can't foresee what dogs are capable of no matter how well you think you know them.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I haven’t read this.
Pit bulls: new gene study shows it is NOT "all in how you raise them" - Animals 24-7
The dogma that dog aggression, especially pit bull aggression, is “all in how you raise them” is again refuted by science.www.animals24-7.org
I have now. There's quite a lot of it.
Some things, like some odd interpretations of basic genetics terminology stated in a very forceful and authoritative manner made me wonder about the author's academic background.
A Google on the author brought me straight here:
The Academic Impostor Behind The Pit Bull Hysteria
Merritt Clifton is prominent not simply because he has been making noise for decades, but because he uniquely claims to be a rigorous statistician: a scholarly expert. People who hate pit bulls lean on this man's putative expertise. And he's a charlatan.
Obviously doesn't mean pit bulls aren't a problem or anything like that, but this particular source doesn't look so kosher.
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